Re: Ideas

[Philip Charles <philipc@copyleft.co.nz>]

On Thu, 1 Jul 1999, Steve McIntyre wrote:

> Martin Schulze writes:
> >Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> I was talking to Ian last night on the way back from the Linux99


**cut 
 
> With the current multi-cd layout, the optimal way IMHO is to go the way I
> chose: the Packages.cd file on each binary CD knows about the contents of
> itself and any previous binary CDs, so (using the example above): 
> 
>    Packages.cd files on binary CD#1 list packages on CD#1
>    Packages.cd files on binary CD#2 list packages on CD#1 and CD#2
> 
>    (source disks don't contain Packages files at all)
> 
>    Packages.cd files on binary CD#5 list packages on CD#1, CD#2 and CD#5
> 
> Then the user is told to run the Update step in dselect using the last
> binary CD. This _is_ a problem, admittedly - the instructions are not made
> clear enough. That's why I've suggested adding a simple message to the
> multicd update code to make sure people can't miss it.

Here here.  From the vendor's point of view the alternatives are
horrendus.  It is bad enough when people get tangled up with multi-cd, but
this is nothing compared with keeping multiple disc-trees.

> >> going to patch the dpkg-multicd method to insert a message in the Update
> >> step itself, so people should now no longer be able to miss this. And to
> >> fix the other source of confusion, I'll also add a warning that in many
> >> cases a simple install will never use any disks subsequent to the first
> >> one... 

Good.

> >I would apreciate if I - as the current maintainer and quartor-author
> >of dpkg-multicd - would be informed before something is done.  Thanks!
> 
> Don't worry, my "patch" above would have been by email to you as the
> maintainer of multicd. :-) I'm not trying to tread on any toes here... 
> 
> >Apart from that, this is the wrong way - imho.  Please put the .cd files
> >on all disks.  If people don't like multicd they can still use the
> >regular cdrom method and use the regular Packages files.
> 
> Which is by now almost useless IMHO. The moment we split the main section
> across multiple disks, the standard cdrom method failed us. It's no longer
> much use at all. But in case people still want to struggle along with it,
> the current CDs have usable "normal" Packages files in the right places
> too...

> What we need is a better CD-ROM interface that asks the user to feed all
> their CDs in in turn and remembers the different Packages files from each.
> This is clearly the best way to do things IMHO. If I understand his code
> at all, this appears to be what Heiko is doing with dpkg-multicd V2. And
> IIRC it's what Jason is programming apt-cdrom to do also. Then we can get
> away from the problems I've detailed here with multiple CDs. It also gives
> us more freedom to do what some people have been pushing for for some time
> now - producing a core CD and splitting the other packages off onto extra
> CDs organised by section/priority/vendor interest. Debian is getting too
> big for much else...

Why not just feed in the last binary disc and get the disc/package info
from there?
 
> And we can then go for the extra cool stuff on CD#1 that has already been
> mentioned: 
> 
>   Live filessystem with space to have a real linux system up and running
>   from it, either as a demo or as a rescue system. Allow the user to
>   compile their custom kernel at installation time using this...? Maybe
>   do something similar to Lasermoon a few years ago and let the user run
>   almost everything off CD, only copying stuff to the hard drive as
>   necessary / prompted? That was a _very_ cool feature for new users...
> 
>   Graphical installation - obvious
> 
>   Maybe (pie in the sky) a single install CD common to all architectures?
 
I know that we are trying to keep several balls in the air at the same
time, but I would suggest that the one we need to watch is the Debian
(GNU) newby.  They need to be cuddled.  Look after them first and then see
what space is left on the first CD.

> Clearly we still need to maintain boot-floppies for non-CD installations,
> but it's time to start putting the extra space available on CD to good
> use. 
> 
> Comments?

Phil.

-
Philip Charles; 39a Paterson St., Abbotsford, New Zealand; +64 3 4882818
I sell GNU/Linux CDs.   See http://www.copyleft.co.nz