Re: Is an ARM computer a good choice? Which one?
On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 11:17:50AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Tue, 2023-03-21 at 00:34 +0100, Lionel Élie Mamane wrote:
>> Would an ARM-based machine be a good freedom-respecting computer to
>> run Debian on? I read the Raptor/Power guys saying modern ARM has
>> freedom problems in a, but I haven't seen them go into specifics.
> It depends on what you mean by freedom-respecting.
Mostly, I wanted to understand the main alternatives and their level
of freedom. In an ideal world, I'd like every bit of software,
drivers, firmware, etc to be FLOSS. Pragmatically, I won't reject a
platform that is "less bad" than the amd64 I'd get from the store.
Thank you for the good overview!
> For example, the RPi devices start the VideoCore GPU first,
> proprietary firmware then starts the ARM cores, then starts the ARM
> boot process.
Oh. So less good than I expected.
> On mobile devices, look at PinePhone, Librem 5 or MNT Pocket Reform,
> other devices have less mainline Linux support or worse freedom
> issues.
Mobile... let's say I consider this a different subject, sadly. we've
been having different projects for a long time (I remember OpenMoko /
GTA0x, also some early Compaq PDAs??) but IMO nothing I can use in
daily life. I have a Librem 5, I ordered it... I think in 2017. I
don't consider it usable for daily life, at least "out of the box +
install available OS upgrades".
> On laptops, probably the Apple ARM devices are the fastest, but
> mainline Linux isn't yet suitable but is gaining ground quickly. I
> think there might be some blobs during the boot or something and the
> different page size for Apple ARM devices might be a challenge.
Yes, I've been excited about it since they started; recently I took a
look at
https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-Apple-Silicon
they say "somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first system like the
Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware and boot components;
while a number of blobs are required in order to boot the system, none
of those have the ability to take over the OS or compromise it
post-boot", but also:
* Brick recovery / total system flash (DFU) requires phoning home
Which I understand an Apple account, tying the hardware to the Apple
account, and Apple's permission to do a "total system flash". Err...
feels like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire?
> Otherwise Lenovo and other vendors have some ARM laptops.
Oh, I'll try to find them.
> Or there is the PineBook or MNT Reform for more esoteric devices.
The PineBook shop page explicitly says "don't order if you are looking
for a substitute for your x86 laptop" :-|
>> I don't particularly want to get deep into being a porter
> Personally I think users of every non-amd64 port should consider
> doing porting work to keep their ports viable, since your personal
> package set might not be on the radar of vendors like ARM or other
> users.
"Some work", like submitting patches to fix that-or-that package for
the architecture, yes, that's part of FLOSS developer / enthusiast
life, and I'd probably enjoy the work. Even running a buildd, if
that's what lacking. But I don't want it to be the majority of my
"free software time" either. And I need a machine that works to do the
work, obviously.
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