Debian-Alpha port ideas...please read (long)
> Chris, what is the status of dselect on Alpha? Is it trustworthy?
Not at this time, from what I gather. The addition of the "g" library
versions is killing us starting today. While we were really primed for
having a completely stable base and devel distribution (I would say we
were within 20 packages of being totally ready for "stable" status), it
appears that the x86 people threw a monkey wrench into the works by
creating the dual-devel environment and introducing the "g" libraries.
This situation has forced me to recompile TONS of packages and absolutely
slaughters dselectability amongst common packages. A current situation
that I recently dealt with, for reference is this:
tcl8.0 & tk8.0 depends on xlib6g
xlib6g installation barfs wanting a new xbase
there is no new xbase available as of yet on master or my site
(I'm working on this)
I've just noticed a problem with the latest ncurses3.4 release
(tracking it down now...bug report filed by another
user on another platform -- same problem)...also breaks
ncftp and TONS of packages on my box (haven't dselected
recently, btw, so this could've been fixed by now)
I hate to say this, but I doubt we can reach total "dselectability" until
the x86 people get their collective s**t together. I know I'm not
officially authorised to do this, but I think if we want to get totally
stable, we should freeze the development source tree right now and achieve
90% completion before trying to keep up with the x86'ers and their
package-release pace.
I know this would be a big move, but it may be necessary since the
packages are moving WAY too fast for any of us to keep up with. Plus, the
library-porting rate is too rapid for us to keep recompiling to accomodate
for the changes.
Honestly, the "hamm" directory on any platform right now is "iffy" at
best. I'd personally like to see this change for us. My proposal for a
goal right now is to achieve these objectives:
* ease of installation on ANY Alpha hardware
* great documentation that's easy to follow for installation procedures
on all Alpha hardware
* a unified and stable source tree for developers to work on porting
(patches should be portable throughout platforms, fyi)
* a close-to-stable package tree for users to select from (more on this
later in this message)
* upgradability of a non-developer-maintained system (user-level) to
the final release version of Debian 2.0 Alpha
* proper documentation available for newcomer developers and a
maintained list of packages that needs work (either that or a central
coordinator to help guide the effort...no politics...just guidance to
eliminate duplication of effort)
Most of these goals are badly needed RIGHT NOW and will need to be met
before we can hope to attract users away from RedHat-AXP and over to us.
Plus, I'd like to see a reduction of "how do you install Debian on a(n)
[Miata,UDB,AS,BullGooseAlpha]" on the mailing list (no offence to those
who posted such questions...I just feel that those of us who have been
here awhile should've produced documents to help you by now). We can
mostly likely get the Debian Documentation gurus to incorporate our
instructions into the official documentation if we can collectively get it
going.
I know I'm kinda getting on a soap-box with my last few remarks, but I
really think that we can only accomplish these things as a group. After
all, we're all in this together and, given the hardware differences, we
probably should be working together more and more. For these reasons, I
strongly urge EVERYONE that monitors this list and runs Debian on their
Alphas to post bugs and/or problems to this list AND the bug report page
linked to my WWW site (http://beezer.med.miami.edu:8080/alpha).
Developers, please monitor this list and that site for these reports daily
(if possible) since our only hope for stability and problem resolution is
via feedback. I know that some of the developers here are heavily loaded
with other duties with regards to Debian, so if you need help with the
Alpha side, please let me know and I can try to arrange for help if I
can't handle it myself.
Ok. Enough of my soapbox routine. I would like to hear from anyone here
that has feedback regarding my proposals. We're all in this together and,
even though *MY* personal system is stable, I would like to see others
achieve the same without having to jump through the proverbial hoops that
I had to in order to achieve this (in other words, I don't want to scare
others off by making our "unstable" dist too pragmatic to install).
In short, we desperately need documentation right now rather than package
availability. Between myself and others on this list, we've increased the
number of packages that are available to Debian-Alpha users by over 300%
in the past month or two (plus, I've heard ZERO questions like "do you
have xxxx available yet?"). Documentation and ease of installation are
the keys to attracting users over from other distributions to ours, so
this should be worked on. Plus, RedHat is HEAVILY prominent on the Alpha
and, as much as I don't want to "compete" with RedHat in a mean-spirited
way, I do feel that our distribution is much better in a number of ways
and should be considered a big contender for Alpha users for many reasons.
Without smooth installation and documentation, we may never achieve their
degree of success or recognition. On a side-note, a few plugs on the AXP
list probably wouldn't hurt once we get this thing more "user-friendly".
I also feel I should mention that I am not seeking any "power" position by
promoting the above ideas. If anything, I would rather remain a
"workhorse" and not a leader. I just want to see some direction for this
port since I feel that we need almost a "subpolicy" for now until the x86
developers settle down a bit.
Thanks for hearing me out and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE forward all suggestions
regarding FAQs and/or policies to this list rather than me personally
since such info is better reviewed by the consensus for completeness.
Chris
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