Re: Offer of help
Fernando <alegre@superlink.net> writes:
> >
> > > >
> > > > Packages should be able to install without any question asked. Default
> > > > config files must be provided as well as default config databases.
> > >
> > > Agreed. However, in a very few cases an answer from the user is needed.
> > > For example, you must know the hostname of the computer and the type
> > > of connection it has. Using a default value is a wrong choice.
> >
> > hostname="a_poorly_maintained_debian_system"
> > connection="none"
>
> No, no. That's a wrong choice. If you install 150 systems at the same time
> you will have 150 computers called "a_poorly_maintained_debian_system" and
> then you will have to go to all 150 of them and change it. That's very
> inconvenient and it's one of the main points of having an admintool at all.
If you install 150 computers, you will use dhcp or similar to set the
IP adresses and for the config you will ask the server. The server can
return the correct hostname by looking at the questing ip. You just
need one file with all ips and hostnames or a already installed nameserver.
> Furthermore, if you set connection=none by default, then no one of those
> 150 computers will have a network connection and you will have to physically
> sit at each of them to change their hostnames. That's a serious flaw.
Again, if you have 150 computers, you will create a bootdisk for them,
which will set the network options during booting.
> The only valid procedure is asking the question to the user. Nobody else
> can make a right guess. However, the question maybe redirected to a predefined
> table/database, which may even be in another computer. In that case the
> user does not see the question at install time, but he must have created
> the table before installing.
If the user doesn't want to get asked at all, (maybe because he wants
to go and get some sleep and configure the system the next day), he
wont get asked at all. Then he has to live with the default values,
the stupid hostname and no network connection.
I agree with you that everybody has to be asked for his network
config, so that should be a level 1 question. Level 1 would be the
lowest experience level possible, while 0 is reserved for
non-interactive config.
> That was the main motivation for Wichert's proposal: the virtual database.
> I have implemented it in my config generator and I think any admintool must
> implement it.
>
> > There is a much more important thing to think about than missing
> > defaults: Broken configs. If a program finds that his config is
> > broken, it can tell the system that it is and next time the config
> > frontend is invoked (when something is installed or on purpose) the
> > package will eigther go through its config again or have a big red
> > warning in front of it notifying the user.
> >
>
> I don't understand what you mean exactly here. Could you explain it a little
> more?
Say, for example, you told apache to use /var/www, but during boot
apache will find that /var/www has gone missing overnight. Then you
will get a message during boot that apache has a broken config.
When you start the config frontend, apache will be listed under
"broken" or be written in red or have a exclamation mark in front.
> > > This is what Windows does. I have an ethernet connection and still Windows
> > > tells me sometimes that I need to configure my modem to connect to the
> > > Internet. I guess it assumes that a direct ethernet connection is not the
> > > right way to connect to the Internet...
> >
> > Which realy sux, because I can't configure the modem on the
> > universities comps, so some network stuff doesn't work, even though
> > they have a 10 MBit connection.
>
> Yes, it sucks because Windows assumes "connection=modem", which is as bad as
> "connection=none".
connection=none is the only save default. Nearly everyone wants
something else there, but none works for everyone. Unless a
non-interactive installation is choosen, the user will be prompted for
the connection.
Another usefull option would be to automatically set the modem
parameters by selecting one out of a list of providers. A database
with providers and places would be needed for that. Microsoft has such
a service for the modem setup. It calls M$ and downloads a list of
providers near you (and probably uploads your registration too) and
lets you choose one of those.
May the Source be with you.
Goswin
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