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Re: MATE chosen by default instead of gnome for blind people [Was: Debian Installer Stretch Alpha 6 release]


I precise I'm ready to think with GNOME of way to help for face-to-face
tests, regression tests, writing docs. But it implies a willing, a true
choice, and time. So ... to be discussed.


Le 22/05/2016 22:33, Samuel Thibault a écrit :
> Mario Lang, on Sun 22 May 2016 21:56:00 +0200, wrote:
>> What I am trying to say is, if a desktop wants to provide Accessibility
>> that is actually useful to users, they will have to invest more time
>> into it then they currently are willing to do.
> Well, perhaps it's not a question of time, but of methodology.
>>  * Do some real usability testing with blind users.
>>    Unsupervised solo experiments do often lead to very vague and emotional results.
> Yes, I'd say that's why the lack of precise feedback for gnome: users
> are simply lost in the new interface, and can't provide anything useful.
> I'm wondering: do gnome maintainers actually make real face-to-face
> testing with blind users?  As Jean-Philippe Mengual said, there is a lot
> of work done on the technical side, perhaps it's just lacking actual
> testing with real users?  I'd say it's perhaps unfair to suggest that
> gnome maintainers need to spend more time than they already do (I don't
> know if we know how much they do), and that the issue is rather that
> there is no face-to-face feedback?
> Also, is there a guide for blind people new to gnome3, teaching how the
> interface is working?  If there is one, we need to point to it from
> the debian accessibility wiki.  If there is none, then that's possibly
> simply what Jean-Philippe and Mario are lacking?  One issue when
> introducing a completely different way to interact with the desktop,
> as gnome3 did, is that it introduces new concepts.  These concepts
> are typically designed for sighted people first (I'm not saying that
> gnome3 did it this way, I don't know, I only guess that's probably how
> it happened), and are thus made to be intuitive for sighted people.
> Maintainers then forget that they are probably not intuitive for
> non-sighed people, and the new concepts thus *have* to be explained to
> them.  And I'd say you can not write a guide explaining the new concepts
> without actually discussing face-to-face with a really blind user who
> never *saw* the new interface, so that he pinpoints the things which
> need to be explicited because they are not obvious when you can't see
> (and that you can not un-understand once you have understood them, and
> thus would forget to mention them). That "freshman" step is required, I
> believe.
> Samuel


Jean-Philippe MENGUAL

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