Re: "Debian women may leave due to 'sexist' post"
i'm shocked by how much sexist crap is posted to the debian-women mailing list lately.
it's a magnet for folks who think women shouldn't be here. ... and Miry almost on her own replying to it.
Whatever dark ages society you're from Peter, know that there are places in the world where men are involved in creating a child, where much more than 5% of men raise their children, and even places where women outnumber men in computer science.
your anecdotal evidence of your own locality more likely proves your local boys are raised to beleive they must conform to a certain set of "male" roles, and the girls to "female" roles as defined in your culture.
Peter Tuhársky wrote on 30/12/08 1:06
>I'm not impressed. I know
>enough women that
>understood the difference
>between men and women,
>and happily let their
>husbands to fix things,
>install new devices into
>houshold and so on, instead
>of attempting to do
>it themselve. They all got
>there by their own
>experience, not by outside
>pressure. Generally, men are
>more into technology,
>although there are
>always exceptions in both
>sides. And You'd be surprised,
>I also change
>nappies if necessarry.
>
>That said, I won't oppose
>women to choose a job they
>like, however if
>this goes into extremes,
>such as woman WILLINGLY
>fighting for the right
>for digging into mine, then
>the only answer to such
>insanity is to
>expect equal work results
>from her. There is no
>sanctuary in positive
>discrimination, because that
>usually means negative
>discrimination of
>others.
>
>I would like the society to be
>more polite to the pregnant
>and nursing
>women especially, however,
>won't take the cheap
>feminist self-excuses
>either. The workplace and
>social legislative is screwed at
>all (at least
>here where I live), not only
>for women.
>
>Peter
>
>Miriam Ruiz wrote /
>napísal(a):
>> 2008/12/29 Peter
>Tuhársky
><tuharsky@misbb.sk>:
>>
>>> For me, the answer is
>quite simple. The computing
>is almost technical
>>> industry, and therefore
>it is naturally more suitable
>for men, who are
>>> naturally strog in
>technical thinking and
>achieving the task
>milestones.
>>> Just like there are much
>more women in people-
>contact positions, because
>>> women are naturally
>better equipped for social
>contact, empathy,
>>> caregiving... Althought I
>think it is time now, that
>much of technical
>>> issues are being solved or
>solved already, and there is
>need to make the
>>> computing experienca
>"more human".
>>
>> I'm Copying and Pasting an
>answer (translated into
>English) to that
>> mysterious questions that
>someone published in
>Barrapunto [1] some
>> time ago, in a satirical way,
>but very accurate in my
>oppinion:
>>
>>
>> How funny, when I read
>this I thought that maybe
>women are better
>> suited for humanities than
>for science and computation.
>Nevertheless
>> it seems that there are
>less women interested in
>literature, have a
>> look at the members of
>Real Academia de la Lengua
>[2], for example. I
>> can hardly see any woman.
>Then I thought that maybe
>women are not
>> interested in studying, but
>in fact we have a higher level
>than men in
>> studies, there are more
>women at university,
>studying languages,
>> etc.... What a mystery!
>>
>> Maybe it's that we have
>mor affinity for business,
>but it seems that
>> there are less business
>women than men, or
>dedicated to business
>> administration, and that
>the great majority of senior
>executives and
>> CEOs are men.
>>
>> I've also seen at INE
>(Spanish Statistics Institute)
>that it usually
>> takes more time for
>women to find a job (unless it
>is related to
>> cleaning houses or taking
>care of children and elders,
>or the company
>> is receiving some subsidy
>for hiring them). The
>conclusions are clear:
>> women are not interested
>in anything, and that's why
>they put no
>> effort in working or finding
>a job.
>>
>> Maybe you're right, and
>women are interested in
>investing their time
>> in something else for fun,
>but in what? WTF are women
>in this country
>> interested in?
>>
>> It is without a doubt a
>mysterious question, but
>after thinking deeply
>> about it and looking for
>more information, I now
>know what's
>> happening!
>>
>> Women like to invest their
>time in having children and
>being at home
>> taking care of them. That
>is definitely certain and
>provable because
>> statistics show it clearly
>(you only have to look at
>them carefully):
>> 100% of children are given
>birth by women, and 0%
>from men. 95% of the
>> unemployed due to taking
>care of their homes are
>women, and the free
>> time that working women
>have (including those
>working as software
>> developers) is invested in
>that too. That would also
>explain why there
>> are so few women
>developing Free Software.
>They prefer to be taking
>> care of house chores,
>changing nappies and feeding
>babies in their
>> free time!
>>
>> Well, it must also be added
>that we live in a country full
>of
>> misogynists, there are still
>old-minded people that with
>their last
>> century minds do
>whatever they can to avoid
>women to be integrated in
>> certain working
>environments, gender
>discrimination (as much as
>some
>> people want to deny it and
>don't want to see it) is
>everywhere all
>> around us.
>>
>> Well, I'm sorry to open
>your eyes to this hard
>reality, but with the
>> great mistery solved I'm
>pretty sure everyone can
>rest more relaxed.
>> Greetings!
>>
>>
>> Original message in
>Spanish:
>>
>> Qué raro, al leer esto
>pensé que igual las mujeres
>tenemos mejores
>> dotes para las letras que
>para las ciencias y la
>programación. Sin
>> embargo parece que
>también hay menor
>frecuencia de mujeres
>interesadas
>> en el tema de la literatura,
>vease los miembros de la
>Real Academia de
>> la Lengua: [2] Yo casi no
>veo mujeres.
>> Entonces pensé que a las
>mujeres no les gusta
>estudiar, sin embargo
>> tienen un nivel de estudios
>superior al de los hombres,
>hay mas
>> mujeres en la universidad,
>en las escuelas de idiomas...
>que misterio.
>>
>> Quizás sea que deben de
>tener más afinidad por los
>negocios, pero
>> resulta que también hay
>menos mujeres empresarias
>que hombres, o que
>> se dediquen a la dirección
>de empresas, y la gran
>mayoría de los altos
>> ejecutivos son hombres.
>>
>> También he visto en el INE
>que las mujeres tardan
>mucho más en
>> encontrar trabajo (a
>menos que el trabajo sea de
>limpiar casas o
>> cuidar niños y mayores, o
>la empresa en cuestión
>reciba alguna clase
>> de subvencion por
>contratarlas, en estos casos
>las mujeres encuentran
>> trabajo mucho antes que
>los hombres).
>> La conclusión es clara: las
>mujeres no están
>interesadas en ningún
>> tema y por eso no ponen
>empeño ni en trabajar ni en
>buscar trabajo.
>>
>> Probalemente tengas
>razón y a las mujeres les
>interese dedicar el
>> tiempo a otra cosa por
>gusto, pero a qué?? ¿¿Qué
>diantres les gusta a
>> las mujeres en este
>país??...
>>
>> Sin duda esta es una
>misteriosa cuestión, pero
>tras informarme y
>> meditarlo... Ya se lo que
>pasa!
>>
>> A las mujeres les gusta
>dedicar su tiempo a tener
>hijos y cuidarlos en
>> su casa. Esto es seguro y
>demostrable ya que las
>estadísticas lo
>> revelan claramente (solo
>hay que fijarse): el 100% de
>los niños nacen
>> de mujeres, y el 0% de
>hombres. El 95% de los
>inocupados por labores
>> de hogar son mujeres, y el
>tiempo libre que tienen las
>mujeres
>> ocupadas (incluyendo a las
>que trabajan como
>programadoras) se va en
>> más de lo mismo. Esto
>explicaría también porqué
>tan poquitas mujeres
>> programen software libre.
>Prefieren hacer sus labores,
>cambiar pañales
>> y dar papillas en su tiempo
>libre!!!
>>
>> Bueno, también faltaría
>añadir que vivimos en un país
>con un gran
>> número de misóginos,
>todavía quedan retrógrados
>que con su mentalidad
>> de hace un siglo hacen todo
>lo posible para evitar la
>incorporación de
>> la mujer en ciertos
>ambientes laborales, la
>discriminación de género
>> (por mucho que lo
>neguemos y no queramos
>verlo) aparece y se ejerce
>> activamente cada día a
>nuestro alrededor...
>>
>> En fin, que lamento abriros
>los ojos a esta cruda
>realidad, pero ya
>> con el gran misterio
>desvelado, seguro que todos
>podréis descansar más
>> tranquilos.
>> Un saludo!
>>
>>
>> [1]
>http://barrapunto.com/com
>ments.pl?sidx917&cid
>97978
>> [2]
>http://www.rae.es/rae/gest
>ores/gespub000001.nsf/voT
>odosporId/A9C3B614985EAD
>D8C1257136007078F7?Open
>Document
>>
>>
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