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Raul Miller is lying scum [Was: thoughts on potential outcomes for non-free ballot]



On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 11:50:11AM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
> > > Also, we should probably update the DFSG to indicate that they are
> > > "Debian's Free Software Requirements", rather than merely being
> > > guidelines.  This would also require updating the social contract and
> > > the constitution.
> 
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2004 at 02:44:57PM +0000, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > I very strongly object to that.
> > 
> > http://people.debian.org/~asuffield/wrong/dfsg_guidelines.html
> > explains what "guidelines" means here. It is the correct name.
> 
> It states:
> 
>    It is not inconceivable that there may be works which contravene the
>    DFSG, but which are still free enough for inclusion in Debian. However,
>    a GR would be required (preferably one which modifies the DFSG
>    directly) in order for this to occur. No amount of arguing on the
>    mailing lists will accomplish it.
> 
> This "should" seems rather unreasonable.

There is no "should". It would be a "must", but there's no "must" here
either.

> We already have numerous cases of software which does not satisfy all
> the points of the DFSG but which people still believe are free enough
> to be distributed and/or used by Debian.  GFDL licensed documentation
> is one rather obvious example.

Yes, GFDL documentation is a rather obvious example that supports my
point; it was the reason for this document in the first place. This
stuff has to get out of main unless a GR is passed permitting it to
stay, despite the fact that some people believe it is free enough for
main.

> It's true that if your resolution passed we would need to pass further
> resolutions to fix the problem you're creating, but at present the above
> paragraph is simply false.

FUD. (And irrelevant, to boot)

> > > Likewise, Andrew has adopted some of his proposal from issues I've raised.
> > 
> > I don't believe that is accurate.
> 
> For example, after I proposed removing the Linux specific wording in
> the social contract, you introduced the same kind of change in yours.

I did that following the suggestion of somebody on IRC (I forget who),
in December.

> Likewise, after I changed "FTP archive" to "internet archive" in my
> proposal, you changed "FTP archive" to "archive".

I did that on my own, also in December.

Both of these were present in the very first draft[0] that I made
public (December 27th). That document was created over the course of
about a week, based on the list archives from October and November,
some suggestions from IRC, and anything I thought up on my own.

Your first proposal was on January 10th[1], at which point you had
included neither of these modifications - two weeks after I first
published a draft that included them.

Have you been taking lessons from Darl McBride? This is SCO's
method. I did both of these things before you did. This is a matter of
record, which I have just confirmed in the list archives (I went back
as far as October 2003, when Branden first proposed a social contract
update).

Please do not migrate from generating FUD to outright breach of
copyright (specifically rights of attribution).

[0] http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2003/debian-vote-200312/msg00029.html
[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2004/debian-vote-200401/msg01122.html

-- 
  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ |
 `. `'                          |
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