Hi There was a useful thread a while ago on umask and where it gets set (one of 4 places, two in /etc/ two in ~/) So that's great, BUT I've noticed that saving OpenOffice.org documents uses the wrong umask! As X is a different shell to bash (pls. don't start a big debate on X being a shell - there's another thread on that already!) does it have different places to set umask? Or is that a {g,x,k}dm setting? thanks rich