Re: Announcing the availability of first Qt 3.3 packages
Dominique Devriese <dominique.devriese@student.kuleuven.ac.be> writes:
> Brian Nelson writes:
>
>>>> IMO, the reason for the missing files is the ridiculous number of
>>>> superfluous packages Qt has been split into. Is it really
>>>> necessary to have libqt3-mt-dev, libqt3-headers,
>>>> libqt3-compat-headers, qt3-dev-tools, qt3-designer, qt3-apps-dev,
>>>> qt3-linguist, qt3-assistant, qt3-qtconfig, qt3-dev-tools-embedded,
>>>> qt3-dev-tools-compat, etc. (I think I even left some out!) in
>>>> separate packages? Just a single -dev package seems sufficient to
>>>> me.
>>>
>>>> It makes me wonder what kind of a bribe it took to get this past
>>>> the ftp-masters.
>>>
>>> Are you sure you know what you're talking about ? I can think of a
>>> lot of situations in which those tools are used in various
>>> different combinations, so that it really is a good idea to have
>>> them in separate packages.
>
>> Huh? That's absolutely no reason to put a bunch of small binaries
>> in separate packages. You gain nothing except unnecessary
>> complexity.
>
> Let's see. I don't consider these small binaries:
> qt3-assistant_3%3a3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb 229K
> qt3-designer_3%3a3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb 3,9M
> qt3-linguist_3%3a3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb 324K
> qt3-dev-tools_3%3a3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb 1,2M
> qt3-dev-tools-embedded_3%3a3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb 273K
Well, anything under 500K or so I consider to be quite small.
For a full Qt development environment (i.e. if you're doing Qt
development, you really need all this stuff) with these 3.3.2 packages,
you need:
41k libqt3-mt-dev_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
2.9M libqt3c102-mt_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
335k libqt3-headers_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
71k libqt3-compat-headers_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
1.1M qt3-dev-tools_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
5.2M qt3-doc_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
324k qt3-linguist_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
85k qt3-qtconfig_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
229k qt3-assistant_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
80k libqt3-i18n_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
Total: 11M
I left out qt3-designer because I don't use it, and to show the worst
case scenario for my argument.
A minimal build environment would require:
41k libqt3-mt-dev_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
2.9M libqt3c102-mt_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
335k libqt3-headers_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
71k libqt3-compat-headers_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
1.1M qt3-dev-tools_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
Total: 4.5M
A Non-developer user of the libraries would need:
2.9M libqt3c102-mt_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
85k qt3-qtconfig_3.3.2-0pre1_i386.deb
80k libqt3-i18n_3.3.2-0pre1_all.deb
Total: 3.0M
>> Also, you must only be talking about qt3-assistant, qt3-qtconfig,
>> qt3-linguist, and qt3-designer.
>
>> What you've said doesn't apply to headers, and who the hell knows
>> what the difference between qt3-dev-tools, qt3-apps-dev, etc. is
>> anyway?
>
> I do, and you would too if you had taken the time to look at the
> package descriptions:
>
> qt3-dev-tools: a number of binaries ( note: architecture dependent, so
> you don't want them in an arch independent headers
> package ) for normal development with Qt
Who said we need a arch-indep headers package anyway? I don't know of
any other library packages in Debian that have one. Hell, I co-maintain
one, if not the, largest library package in Debian and it doesn't have
headers split into a separate package.
> qt3-apps-dev: stuff you need when you're going to be doing special
> things with embedding Qt designer and stuff. Almost
> noone needs this.
"Special things"? What the hell are "special things"? And the package
name in no way suggests any difference from qt3-dev-tools.
> Anyway, if you're going to be making claims like this, it would be a
> lot more useful if you could provide us with a proposal about how you
> would like to see the package split up, so we could consider this in a
> useful manner.
As I said before, I think most stuff should be moved into a single -dev
package. For a working example, see the packages at
http://bignachos.com/~nelson/debian .
Full a full Qt development environment with these packages:
1.6M libqt3-mt-dev_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
3.6M libqt3c102-mt_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
17M qt-x11-free_3.3.2.orig.tar.gz
4.8M qt3-dev-tools_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
6.3M qt3-doc_3.3.2-1_all.deb
Total: 17M
So there's a 6M difference, 4M of which are due to qt3-designer (I'd
have no problem splitting out qt3-designer). The rest of the difference
is presumably due to the random stuff missing from Madkiss's packages,
as seen in all the bug reports.
A minimal build environment would require:
1.6M libqt3-mt-dev_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
3.6M libqt3c102-mt_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
Total: 5.1M
A non-developer user would need:
3.6M libqt3c102-mt_3.3.2-1_i386.deb
So ultimately we're talking about a 2M difference for a developers and
600K for users or buildds, with the trade-off being far simpler packages
(8 packages vs. 23 or whatever the current number is) with fewer bugs
(no missing files).
--
You win again, gravity!
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