Re: Need help: difficult NM / requestor
Andreas Barth (2003-07-24 16:13:53 +0200) :
[...]
> After looking at
> http://nm.debian.org/nmstatus.php?email=erayo%40cs.bilkent.edu.tr I
> don't believe that he is ever becoming a DD (and after the
> discussion with him by mail I think that's also better). Well, he
> was also the example in the recent discussion on d-d that DAM
> currently doesn't reject people who don't have a real chance to get
> into debian, but stalls their acceptance process.
Eray popped up on IRC (#debian-devel on irc.debian.org) today and
stated (at quite some length) his position, which I'll try to rephrase
here. But first, a bit of background. Eray has been an NM applicant
for years. When he joined the process, he managed to piss off a
spectacular number of people, including (and that was probably not a
good move, even if he couldn't know) Branden Robinson, who was
particularly vocal at the time (yes, I believe Branden's cooled down
since then). He insisted in calling himself a competent hacker (which
irritated prople probably disblieve at least partly because of his
attitude), calling people who disagreed with him incompetent. I seem
to remember the word "fuckwit" was involved but I can't seem to find
any source for that. He was also boasting about some grandiose plans
which I can't remember (something about ontologies), but seemed
reluctant to show any working code. He also maintained some packages
(via the sponsorship system) that some people considered faulty, which
only added to the, um, divergence of opinions.
That resulted in some people calling other people names, lots of
flaming, and generally no good. Probably as a consequence of both
that state of affairs and the beginning of the "DAM problem", Eray
became one of the first people running for the "longest DAM stage
award". Since then, Eray has periodically popped up, got flamed, then
gone silent again. Most people (as far as I know) have taken to
ignoring him, while still being uncomfortable about the "Eray case" in
the NM process.
So he showed up on IRC today, demanded to talk to elmo (who didn't
answer), started to be not-quite-rude-but-still-not-very-smooth to
people present, and stated a few things that really got the heat
started. Namely, that he had only 20 minutes a month to spend for
Debian work (although he retracted that fact later), and that he
wouldn't do any work on his packages until he got his account. As far
as I know, that was the real last straw. People started looking at
the current state of his packages[1], and we tried to convince him
that he was not in any really good position to argue and demand to be
accepted if he kept that attitude of not fixing his packages.
Eray then stated that he had, at numerous times in the past,
prepared packages that fixed the then-current bugs, then tried to get
sponsors, found some, but they then desisted. Some people present on
the channel interpreted that as "the packages weren't good enough to
be sponsored". He then quite clearly stated that the bugs weren't
fixed in his repository ("in addition to in the archive"), and this is
a quote: "I haven't done any fixing for the last 1.5 years. Or 1
year." He even admitted he was effectively MIA.
Present people then started dividing into two camps. First were the
people stating quite categorically that this kind of behaviour (as
welle as the time limitation) was certain to lead to a rejection.
Second were those (including myself) that tried to explain to him that
he would be in a much better position to make claims and demands if
his packages were actually maintained (and preferably in good shape).
He re-stated that he didn't want to fix his packages before he got the
account to do so because he couldn't find sponsors (for various
reasons including time constraints and sponsors asking him to find
someone else), which gave the first camp a few more members.
After rehashing the arguments once or twice again, I submitted the
following proposal: if Eray fixes the four packages he's supposed to
be maintaining, and puts them into an honourable shape, I'll sponsor
at least one of them (even if I don't use any of them). Mark Brown
said he'd do the same. We then suggested Eray started work on his
packages rather than what was increasingly perceived as a watse of
everyone's time (including his) on IRC. Repeatedly.
At some point, Robert McQueen set some channel bit I wasn't aware
of, which seemed to result in Eray not being able to talk.
Anyway, the offer as it stands is this (fairly standard) sponsorhip
offer: Eray makes fixed packages, makes them available on a public
URL, posts this URL to debian-mentors (possibly Cc:ing me and/or Mark
Brown), and we sponsor these packages if they're good. If they're
good, and the bugs are fixed, we'll advertise that. If the packages
are very good, we'll say that publically too, and maybe advocate him
to the DAM. If they're not good, we'll also advertise that, and Eray
will be in an even more awkward position to bitch and demand than he
is now.
Eray: this is not a way to cheat you. I have no feelings for or
against you (except a slight irritation at how you behave with people
on IRC, but I'll abstract that). Consider this as my very own
personal test, to help me make my own mind about you and your
application. My opinion will be public when I have one. I hope
you'll make it a good one, I wouldn't like to waste my time.
debian-mentors: You're Cc:ed because you might like to know in
advance that Eray is likely to ask for a sponsor for his packages in a
not too distant future.
[1] http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=Eray+Ozkural
Roland.
PS: Rene Engelhard has been kind enough to keep a transcript of the
IRC session, which I won't push to anyone except if someone denies the
existence of my proposal. I can also send it to anyone asking for it.
--
Roland Mas
Seems to me, the only sensible thing is for people to know if they kill a whale,
they've got a dead whale. -- Adam, in Good Omens (T. Pratchett and N. Gaiman)
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