On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:33:44 +0100 Gervase Markham wrote: > Francesco Poli wrote: > > :::: Bad: no clear definition of remote users > > > > The term "user" is not clearly defined. > > Is your point that it is impossible to clearly define, or do you have > alternative language? I cannot have *alternative* language, since there currently is *no* language to define the term "user" at all... ;-) Seriously: I think it's really hard to reasonably define what a remote user is or should be. I don't have a proposed definition, because everytime I try to think of one, I find myself trapped in blurred boundaries and don't know where to draw the line (or how to get back home!). > > Do you know how the corresponding clause in the current Affero license > has historically been interpreted? No idea... > > > This ambiguity is really problematic, as it implies that there's no > > clear way to tell whether a modified version supports remote > > interaction, and hence there's no clear way to tell whether it is > > subject to the restriction specified by this section. > > It's not that bad. If I turn some AGPLed code into a local > graphics-editing application which has no network capabilities, it's > fairly clear that it doesn't apply. > > But then, what happens if I access that desktop using remote X? Hmm... Indeed. Moreover, what if I turn the AGPLed code into an OS kernel? > > Let's say the clause instead said that anyone who interacts with the > work had to get access to the corresponding source, full stop (no > network need be involved). Would that be less ambiguous, I wonder? Less ambiguous, maybe, but worse for sure, since it would extend the restriction to any use of the modified program. And all the issues with kiosks, pay-toll machines, arcade games, and so forth, would come back (as for the AfferoGPL v1). > > >> (if your version supports > >> such interaction) an opportunity to receive the Corresponding > >Source > of your version by providing access to copy the > >Corresponding Source > from a network server at no charge. > > > > :::: Bad: use restriction, with a cost associated to it > > > > This restriction compels whoever runs the modified version of the > > Program to accommodate the source code on the server or, > > alternatively, to set up and maintain a separate network server to > > provide source code: this may be a significant cost in some cases. > > I don't understand this argument. Having to provide CDs of source or > fulfil the terms of a written offer is also a significant cost, but > no-one thinks that makes the GPL non-free. The restriction in the GPL is about the act of conveying copies of the work. The restriction in the AGPL is about *using* the modified work: there's a cost associated with *use*... > > > This is ultimately a use restriction (from the point of view of > > whoever runs the modified version of the Program) > > What does it prevent you using the Program for? If the source doesn't fit in the server the modified version runs on (think of small embedded systems, for instance), I have to set up a separate server to provide source to remote users. In order to *run* the modified version of the Program! If I cannot afford setting up a separate server, I cannot use the modified version on a network! > > > and effectively forbids > > private use of the modified version on a publicly accessible server. > > > > Well, it forbids public use of the modified version on a publicly > accessible server. :-) But of course it does - that's the point. But > then the GPL forbids giving someone the use of the modified version > via giving them a copy without handing them the source code at the > same time. That's not a use restriction. As I said above, the GPL restricts the act of conveying, the AGPL also restricts the use of modified versions of the Program. -- http://frx.netsons.org/doc/nanodocs/testing_workstation_install.html Need to read a Debian testing installation walk-through? ..................................................... Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4
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