Re: Response to the j2se licencing concerns
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[there is no indication in the headers as to whether Stephen wishes to
be CCd or not. To be safe I am CCing him]
On Sunday 14 Oct 2001 2:34 am, Stephen Zander wrote:
>
> Mark> The other concern mentioned on debian-legal by Stephen
>
> Mark> Stafford was:
> >> There is *also* the rest of this clause: (vi) you agree to
> >> defend and indemnify Sun and its licensors from and against
> >> any damages, costs, liabilities, settlement amounts and/or
> >> expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred in connection
> >> with any claim, lawsuit or action by any third party that
> >> arises or results from the use or distribution of any and all
> >> Programs and/or Software.
> >>
> >> I read this as saying that if anyone who gets the software
> >> from Debian decides to sue Sun then Debian, as distributor,
> >> would be liable to pay Sun's legal fees.
>
> No, that says you can't sue Sun. You can't sue Debian anyway; it
> doesn't legally exist.
Read it again. This is clause 3 of the supplemental terms. Clause 3
pertains to distribution of binaries:
========================================================
3. License to Distribute Redistributables. Subject to the terms and
conditions of this Agreement, including but not limited to Section 4
(Java Technology Restrictions) of these Supplemental Terms, Sun grants
you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license to reproduce and
distribute the binary form of those files specifically identified as
redistributable in the Software "README" file ("Redistributables")
provided that: (i) you distribute the Redistributables complete and
unmodified (unless otherwise specified in the applicable README file),
and only bundled as part of Programs, (ii) you do not distribute
additional software intended to supersede any component(s) of the
Redistributables, (iii) you do not remove or alter any proprietary
legends or notices contained in or on the Redistributables, (iv) you
only distribute the Redistributables pursuant to a license agreement
that protects Sun's interests consistent with the terms contained in
the Agreement, and (v) you agree to defend and indemnify Sun and its
licensors from and against any damages, costs, liabilities, settlement
amounts and/or expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred in
connection with any claim, lawsuit or action by any third party that
arises or results from the use or distribution of any and all Programs
and/or Software.
========================================================
While I agree that you can gain clarification from Sun about part (ii)
of this (it is a little vague IMO, it could mean a number of things),
part (v) here seems pretty clear to me.
If you distribute this software (the whole of clause 3 sets out
conditions for distribution) then you have agreed to indemnify Sun for
any and all legal costs and/or damages arising friom this distribution
from any third party suit. A similar clause in the Squeak license was
enough to prevent me from packaging it as Apple confirmed to me that it
did indeed mean that if a Debian user sued them then Debian could
theoretically be liable to pay any legal fees and damages. You need to
have this clarified. It does *not* say that you cannot sue Sun (AIUI
you can't put provision like that in a license). It means that if as a
result of you distributing, someone else sues Sun then you are liable.
It says nothing about whether or not you can sue Debian. It explicitly
says that it is Sun which you must indemnify against damages.
As I indicated before. If you wish to assert that I am wrong and why I
am wrong then I will withdraw my objection.
<standard IANAL disclaimer>
- --
Stephen Stafford
finger bagpuss@debian.org to get gpg public key
I subscribe to most debian-* lists I post to, but a CC direct to me
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