Re: An agenda going forward for Debian-IN
On Wednesday 12 November 2014 Pirate Praveen wrote:
I don't really think we need this. Like Anivar already proposed and like
how Debian works with SPI, we can work with SMC or other organizations
to accept donations.
I like the idea but we so far haven't even done that much. My point is
that legal status in one shape or another has to happen sooner rather than
later. Because until then, Debian-IN doesn't exist. It is nothing more
than a figment of the imagination.
Also there may be practical issues. In a separate mail to the list I've
asked Anivar some more questions about this.
As for invites, we can have the host institution (like Amrita or IITB)
do the invite.
This is suboptimal. Guests are being invited in the name of Debian-IN so
Debian-IN should be the responsible party. Also if my suggestion of
broadening the audience is taken up will there even necessarily be a "host
institution."?
Even if we had an organization, we did not know we had to
get clearance from ministry of external affairs, because earlier times,
the foreign guest took care of their own visa.
Yeah I know. I'm not blaming anyone for an honest mistake. But this is
another reason for more organization; maintaining "institutional memory"
so that when future events are held with different organizers the same
mistakes don't get repeated.
Now since we are aware of
the situation, we hope to be able to get the approvals through the host
institution.
And if you can't for whatever reason? Or they take their sweet time about
it? Something to think about.
It is good that you shared your vision, but as a project, my vision or
any other members' vision has the same relevance/value as yours unless
it is violating debian policies. We changed the name to debutsav only to
respect your ideas about how a mini debconf should be,
I think "my vision" as you call it more accurately describes the vision of
the Debian project as a whole than yours does. Do you truthfully think
otherwise? When you took yours to debian-project you didn't get any
takers nor did I see any of the Indian DDs agree with you over here.
but now that we are creating a new brand, and we are within our rights
to continue it as we defined it.
I have already articulated why I want to have an event where we give
space for other Free Software contributors. It is not even my unique
idea, Fedora does that already with their conferences.
You see what I still don't understand is that, given your views, why you
need or want the string "deb" in the kind of events you want to organize
at all? It could just as easily be called fedutsav, frozenbubblotsav or
praveenutsav without any difference.
For me, Debian is another Free Software project, though an important one
as I chose to contribute to it. But choosing to associate Debian with
such an event gives prominence to debian and gives a chance to other
Free Software contributors to learn about debian.
But thats just it. It doesn't give prominence to Debian. Debian becomes
just "another Free Software project." And it isn't. Documents such as
the constitution, DFSG, and social contract give it a very specific
outlook on Free Software. While broadly aligned with other organizations
that also do Free Software or Open Source, Debian doesn't hesitate to
disagree with them when they do not comport to our notions. (E.g. FSF and
the GFDL issue. Ruby packaging etc.) It's a good thing I don't do NM
application manager work because I would fail any applicant who couldn't
readily articulate the differences between Debian's philosophy and other
FOSS groups.
It would be better for everyone not to try to stop others from doing
what they like, as long as it does not go against the project.
Look, I'm 10 timezones away. I am not in the position to stop anyone.
What I am doing is asking you and everyone if what is being done is truly
in the best interests of the Debian project.
Why are you so persistent at discouraging people contributing?
Are you actually contributing to Debian? I think so. I hope so but we
don't actually know because so far we have no data on the aftereffects of
these events.
I thought we already concluded this discussion.
Given that it was so close to the dates of the event there was no point in
discussing further but down the line I think it is worth asking you to
clarify what exactly you hope to achieve. (And I say you because your
attitude is coming accross as "this is my baby and only I get to say how
it works.") Also down the line, if Debian-IN becomes an actual
organization it will have to make decisions on whether to support this
type of event or not.
If you want debian specific or
debian angled events, it cannot be done by stopping us from doing events
like debutsav, but encouraging more people to organize debian only
events. As for stopping us from events like debutsav where we invite
other Free Software contributors, that would be done only if it is
officially asked by the Debian project. Can we stop these debates now?
I'd respect an official statement from the project.
Um, isn't "us" a part of "we"? Do you mean to say that if ( _if_ ) the
Debian community in India decides to take a different course of action
than you are currently taking you would not follow suit?
I don't understand it. Who are we accountable to? We are putting our
efforts and time to organize these events, why would we have to answer
to anyone? Probably those who fund us might want it to justify spending
that amount. In that case it would be better not to ask Debian to fund
any events.
Come on, do I need to explain to a CS person the need for hard data in
order to debug and optimize?
--
Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@debian.org>
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