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Re: This is how packaging should be done.



On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 06:33:07AM -0700, Jeremiah Mahler wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 08:45:12AM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > * Jeremiah Mahler (jmahler@pacbell.net) wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 08:22:41AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

> > > What about the idea that anyone (not just maintainers) can submit
> > > packages and they will available immediately to others without
> > > having to go through an intermediate person.

> > Bad idea from a security standpoint, of course.

> Not everyone is forced to use the packages contributed from the public.
> There can still be packages approved by official developers. A user
> could decide to only use the packages marked as approved and they would
> be as safe as Debian is now.

And, once again, you are free to set up your own archive of .deb
packages outside the confines of Debian:  no one in Debian needs to give
you the go-ahead in order to do this.  But by virtue of the fact that
you're not creating official Debian packages, Debian is not going to
endorse these packages, either.

Aside from the security issue, it's important to recognize that Debian
is focused not on providing large quantities of programs in package
form, but rather on providing an *operating system* where all of the
software we package integrates cleanly.  That means communication and
organization, and it means dispute resolution policies, to ensure that
all packages play nice together.  How do you go about establishing such
a system when accepting packages from anyone at all is the norm?

> > > In contrast, Debian allows only specific people to add new packages
> > > and only the maintainer can fix their packages. This requires work
> > > by specific people which makes development slow.
> > 
> > "Specific people" being the entire set of Debian people, which is a
> > pretty decently sized set of people.

> What about the situation where a package is broken and the maintainer
> is unreachable. In the model described in the article anyone could
> fix the package (assuming it is not a critical package) but it would
> be marked as new so that people who only want safe packages would
> know to stay away from it. Then, if the maintainer comes back he/she
> could check the package and approve it so that it could now be used
> by people who want safe packages.

And by the same token, anyone could *break* the package, as well.  The
mechanisms that prevent Debian developers from fixing a broken package
when the maintainer is unreachable are not technical, they're social;
and they come from the recognition that a badly done NMU is often worse
than a delayed fix.  The more eager a non-DD is to do an NMU of, say,
glibc, the more likely it is that the non-DD in question does NOT have
the skills necessary to do it properly.

In addition, there's the factor of simply having more packages than we
do developers who care about them.  There are more than a couple
packages out there for which there's no more than one developer who
cares to *be* familiar enough with the package to be able to do a proper
upload.  I don't see that Gentoo will magically overcome this social
reality with their system.  It's something that Debian is trying to
address through the PTS, for instance.

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer

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