Re: FTP masters willingly blocking OpenStack nova 2013.1 just right before the OpenStack summit
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 01:34:25PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Thomas Goirand writes ("FTP masters willingly blocking OpenStack nova 2013.1 just right before the OpenStack summit"):
> > I would like first the new DPL to express his view: is this the role of
> > the FTP masters to overrule the technical opinion of a DD? Do they have
> > the rights to block a package just on the ground that they only don't
> > like how many binary packages it contains? Shouldn't they use, like
> > every other DD, the BTS and the project lists to discuss such a
> > technical issue?
>
> The ftpmasters are entitled to reject packages for technical reasons.
> For example, see the TC decision on ia32-libs-tools:
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=535645#162
Note that the discussion around that issue would rather support his
cause. What I got from that issue was that the ftp team had no reason
to remove the package but they did it anyway. On the other hand the
TC had no reason to override that decision even if it was wrong. Try
finding a technical justification why a package MUST be in debian.
Further the ftp team has never followed the committees
recommendations. All requests, by me, by other DDs, even by members of
the TC, for an accounting have been met by silence. I asked the TC
to help get to such an accounting and the TC has uterly failed me in
that. Summariced in one sentence the result was "The ftp team has the
right to remove packages from the archive, we don't know why and we
can't force them to tell us why."
It's that appearance of "the ftp team is above everyone else" that
rubs the wrong way.
> If you feel you need to escalate such a decision you are indeed
> entitled to do so by referring the matter to the TC.
Luckily this issue doesn't seem to have become a black hole, as seen
in Joergs reply. His explanation makes a good case for why it was
rejected, even recommends superior solutions that reduce the package
count while improving the user experience.
So I hope Thomas bad experience with the ftp team was only temporary
and can be repaired.
> > To the TC: What would be considered a reasonable delay before
> > submitting a bug to the TC?
>
> The question isn't how long to wait. You should make a constructive
> effort to engage with the ftpmasters' objections, to try to convince
> them. That work wouldn't be wasted even if you don't convince the
> ftpmasters, because most of the work is in figuring out what the
> issues are and putting your case together.
>
> You should refer to the TC when it becomes clear that neither you nor
> the ftpmasters are going to be convinced, or if you feel that the
> ftpmasters aren't engaging sufficiently constructively in the
> conversation.
>
> Ian.
Unfortunately even the TC can't force the ftp team to engage in any
conversation. Basically they can overrule a conversation but they
can't overrule silence. They can overrule a bad reason given but they
can't overrule when no reason is given.
As you say "most of the work is in figuring out what the issues are".
Which only works if there actualy is an issue. Which Joergs answere
luckily explains. Now this issue can be put behind and a solution can
be worked on.
Thomas: Rejoice. You seem to have gotten your answere and a way out of
the problem. I wasn't so lucky.
MfG
Goswin
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