Re: Bugs in the latest Debian Sid installer
Am Sonntag 09 August 2009 13:42:37 schrieb Uwe Bugla:
> Am Sonntag 09 August 2009 08:22:54 schrieb Christian Perrier:
> > Quoting Uwe Bugla (uwe.bugla@gmx.de):
> > > Hi everybody,
>
> Hello Christian,
>
> > > using the Debian testing installer from 4th August I stumbled over the
> > > follwing bugs:
> > >
> > > 1. console-data is missing in the list of necessary dependencies when
> > > you install the basic system:
> > > The consequence is:
> > > You are trapped if you owe a non-American keyboard with a qwertz
> > > layout. That complicates the installation process enourmously instead
> > > of simplifying it.
> >
> > We're in the middle of a transition to console-setup. console-data
> > should not be needed anymore. Still, it's not expected that you end up
> > with an unconfigured keymap layout. Does the installed system *have*
> > console-setup installed?
>
> I did not find that out, so I guess the answer is "No"!
>
> > It should have picked up the settings you made, in D-I, for the keymap
> > (in your case, I suspect you picked 'German') and, thus, you should
> > have a working keyboard layout on the installed system.
>
> I have an unusable keyboard layout on the installed system, unfortunately.
> After performing "apt-get install console-data" the keyboard layout is
> usable, but without performing that step the usage is a big pain!
>
> > In any case, "dpkg-reconfigure console-setup" on the installed system
> > should help.
>
> Sounds good, but is only helpful if you know that console-setup has been
> installed or not. How can I find that out?
>
> I will set up a couple of other workstations and I will keep on trying.....
>
> > But, still, that has to be investigated as this is obviously a big
> > regression. I'm not in position to do so, being half-dialup as of
> > now. Hopefully, someone else will.
> >
> > In the meantime, it would be good to mention this in
> > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/ConsoleSetupSwitch
> >
> > (Again, I'm not in position to do that right now....will try to
> > remember later when online)
> >
> > > 2. At the point where the keyboard is being adjusted to the UTF-8
> > > locale the script of the non-graphical installer (expert installation
> > > chosen in that specific case) hangs up the whole installation process.
> > > Only the graphical expert installation oversteps that installation step
> > > successively.
> > >
> > > 3. This is quite an old bug, and I really wonder why noone complained
> > > mentioning this one:
> > >
> > > It is impossible to set up a server / router with this installer
> > > containing more than one NIC, no matter if you chose graphical or
> > > non-graphical installer:
> > >
> > > In my personal example eth0 is connected to a highspeed modem. That's
> > > why I chose automatic DHCP configuration for the first NIC.
> > > Eth1 is configured staticallly by my own choice, that means DHCP with
> > > fixed addresses for the server and the workstations.
> > >
> > > The installer is incapable to handle more than one NIC, which is a
> > > mess! For my personal usage that means that I am forced to completely
> > > ignore the second NIC during the installation process. When
> > > installation is complete I am forced to reconfigure the whole network
> > > part of my server / router manually, i. e. using an ordinary editor.
> > > This state is quite insufficient and thus unacceptable.
> >
> > This is by design, in order to keep the installer simple to use and
> > not confusing to less experienced users. So, by design, the only
> > configured interface is the one that's used for the installation of
> > the machine.
> >
> > Users who want to configure more than one interface are indeed
> > expected to be able to do it after the install, by the usual methods.
> >
> > We really don't want to have *any* owner of a modern laptop (that has
> > two NICs) to be prompted for the setting of his|her two interfaces.
>
> I cannot share that point of view:
> My position:
>
> Your point of view is fully OK for a standard install, no matter if
> console- based or graphical, adressing rookies and beginners.
>
> My point of view should fit for experienced users using the expert install,
> no matter if graphical or console based.
> But simplification in any case, and thus disregarding the different
> installer levels with their different sophistication is a point of view or
> guide line that I cannot and will not share at all...
>
> > > An additional menu point to adjust /etc/apt/sources.list to one's own
> > > personal needs would be very helpful as a part of such an installer.
> >
> > Here again, this is much out of scope of the installer. It is left to
> > the post-install polishing of the installed machine, when the
> > machine's admin is supposed to be skilled enough to know how to do
> > this.
>
> I prefare to avoid the usage of editors. Thus it would make sense to add an
> additional point in the installer menu asking the user whether he wants to
> perform a Debian Sid installation or rather one based on the testing branch
> for which the installer was written: squeeze in this case.
>
> Installers are here to simplify necessary tasks, NOT to complicate them....
>
> It's quite humble to say "We don't want this and we don't want that" or "We
> expect the user to be qualified enough to ......".
>
> I would not define myself as subqualified. But I would highly prefer an
> installer which is a bit more elegant and less buggy and complicated than
> the current one.
> Apart from that I do like Debian and I do recommend its usage to everyone
> that is really open for Linux and open source.
>
> Big regards
>
> Uwe
Christian,
here is an addition to my first answer:
a. console-setup is NOT on board after the basic installation performed by the
current Debian Sid installer, so there can't be any "dpkg-reconfigure console-
setup" performed to readjust my keyboard in order to make it functionable.
I need to install console-data, otherwise my keyboard layout is unusable -
FACT!
b. After the basic installation is finished you are asked whether you want UTC
or local time. I always decide for local time, and thus I answer "NO".
The consequence of that choice is another big pain caused by that rather crude
installer:
It corrects the BIOS clock by adding 2 hours. So if I want to avoid a wrong
system time in order to receive a correct local time with "Berlin" as time
zone I am forced to enter the BIOS at the first system start to readjust the
inbuilt clock.
The consequence of that is that at the next start fsck.ext3 will find a bad
superblock in the root partition, thus being forced to repair the ext3 file
system.
So I need to restart the system for a third time after which it can repair the
superblocks of the other partitions, give me a usable login prompt with an
unusable keyboard layout, and thus (sigh!) enabling me to install mc (my
favorite editor) and console-data (for keyboard adjustment).
Quite harsh and utmost crude, that Debian Sid installer, isn't it?
Regards
Uwe
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