Bug#274028: marked as done (Critical Remarks)
Your message dated Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:52:01 +0200
with message-id <20041005125201.Y9523@macwheel.xs4all.nl>
and subject line Closing Bug#274028: Critical Remarks
has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done.
This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.
(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am
talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration
somewhere. Please contact me immediately.)
Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)
--------------------------------------
Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 29 Sep 2004 12:36:33 +0000
>From martin@makella.de Wed Sep 29 05:36:33 2004
Return-path: <martin@makella.de>
Received: from pd9ebb76d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de (mac1) [217.235.183.109]
by spohr.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 1 (Debian))
id 1CCdhA-0001fW-00; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 05:36:32 -0700
Received: from makella.de (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mac1 (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A8D23042E7
for <submit@bugs.debian.org>; Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:34:43 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 14:34:42 +0200
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5-42482086
Subject: Critical Remarks
From: martin makella <martin@makella.de>
To: submit@bugs.debian.org
Message-Id: <F02420AF-1213-11D9-B1DB-000393ABF614@makella.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553)
Delivered-To: submit@bugs.debian.org
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60-bugs.debian.org_2004_03_25
(1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on spohr.debian.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.9 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_01,HAS_PACKAGE,
HTML_MESSAGE,NO_QS_ASKED autolearn=no
version=2.60-bugs.debian.org_2004_03_25
X-Spam-Level:
--Apple-Mail-5-42482086
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=US-ASCII;
format=flowed
Package: installation-reports
Debian-installer-version: <cdimage-testing/daily/i386 23.09.2004>
Date: 24.09.2004
Method: cd-installation of above image ftp-server: ftp.de.debian (no
proxy)
Machine: network (desktop)
Processor: intel P2
Memory: 512MB
Root Device: IDE
Base System Installation Checklist:
[O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it
Initial boot worked: [O]
Configure network HW: [O]
Config network: [O]
Detect CD: [O]
Load installer modules: [O]
Detect hard drives: [O]
Partition hard drives: [O]
Create file systems: [O]
Mount partitions: [O]
Install base system: [O]
Install boot loader: [O]
Reboot: [O]
Comments/Problems:
During the installation no real problems were encountered, but I think,
and so do many others, that for a linux-beginner it is still to
difficult.
Especially questions about which mailsystem to use and things
concerning the
network settings, a newcomer cannot really answer. Some people have no
idea
what this is all about. There should be a standard installation mode
for beginners with basically no questions asked. Linux should be the
operating
system for everyone. Network and hardware stuff should be configurable
at
a later time. Also there is no back button available. Once you've
screwed
up, that was it.
The real worry was and still is the installation part of the xfree
server.
If any of the settings are wrong the operating system is unable to boot
into x-windows. This is just wonderful, after something like 3 hours of
installation time. Instead the machine falls back into single user mode.
This is more than annoying. What it really means is that debian has just
lost one potential user (forever).
Shouldn't it be possible to boot into a standard 640x480 vga resolution,
with a standard mouse-driver installed, if the x-server fails, with the
option to change the settings later on? Perhaps this should even be the
preferred setup for any new installation.
This new installer is a vast improvement over whatever there was before.
The installation or removing of packages is the best I have yet seen.
(some similar method has been applied in fink). All in all you have done
a great job. Thank you to everyone involved. To say the truth, this was
my first successful installation of debian gnu/linux, and I have tried
quite a few over the last 5 years.
I am using a mac as my personal computer. I must admit with the new
graphical package managers debian linux has an advantage over os x. I
hope
one day people will start writing usable (multi-media) software for
linux
that works and looks similar to the stuff I use on my mac. I am certain
that this would make a giant impact on the windows market.
The people I know that are using linux still have their windows
installed
in parallel. This can't be the solution.
Once again, thanks for a great job.
Martin Makella
--Apple-Mail-5-42482086
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/enriched;
charset=US-ASCII
<fontfamily><param>Courier</param>Package: installation-reports
Debian-installer-version: <<cdimage-testing/daily/i386 23.09.2004>
Date: 24.09.2004
Method: cd-installation of above image ftp-server: ftp.de.debian (no
proxy)
Machine: network (desktop)
Processor: intel P2
Memory: 512MB
Root Device: IDE
Base System Installation Checklist:
[O] = OK, [E] = Error (please elaborate below), [ ] = didn't try it
Initial boot worked: [O]
Configure network HW: [O]
Config network: [O]
Detect CD: [O]
Load installer modules: [O]
Detect hard drives: [O]
Partition hard drives: [O]
Create file systems: [O]
Mount partitions: [O]
Install base system: [O]
Install boot loader: [O]
Reboot: [O]
Comments/Problems:
During the installation no real problems were encountered, but I
think,
and so do many others, that for a linux-beginner it is still to
difficult.
Especially questions about which mailsystem to use and things
concerning the
network settings, a newcomer cannot really answer. Some people have no
idea
what this is all about. There should be a standard installation mode
for beginners with basically no questions asked. Linux should be the
operating
system for everyone. Network and hardware stuff should be configurable
at
a later time. Also there is no back button available. Once you've
screwed
up, that was it.
The real worry was and still is the installation part of the xfree
server.
If any of the settings are wrong the operating system is unable to
boot
into x-windows. This is just wonderful, after something like 3 hours
of
installation time. Instead the machine falls back into single user
mode.
This is more than annoying. What it really means is that debian has
just
lost one potential user (forever).
Shouldn't it be possible to boot into a standard 640x480 vga
resolution,
with a standard mouse-driver installed, if the x-server fails, with
the
option to change the settings later on? Perhaps this should even be
the preferred setup for any new installation.
This new installer is a vast improvement over whatever there was
before.
The installation or removing of packages is the best I have yet seen.
(some similar method has been applied in fink). All in all you have
done
a great job. Thank you to everyone involved. To say the truth, this
was
my first successful installation of debian gnu/linux, and I have tried
quite a few over the last 5 years.
I am using a mac as my personal computer. I must admit with the new
graphical package managers debian linux has an advantage over os x. I
hope
one day people will start writing usable (multi-media) software for
linux
that works and looks similar to the stuff I use on my mac. I am
certain
that this would make a giant impact on the windows market.
The people I know that are using linux still have their windows
installed
in parallel. This can't be the solution.
Once again, thanks for a great job.
Martin Makella
</fontfamily>
--Apple-Mail-5-42482086--
---------------------------------------
Received: (at 274028-done) by bugs.debian.org; 5 Oct 2004 10:52:02 +0000
>From stappers@stappers.nl Tue Oct 05 03:52:02 2004
Return-path: <stappers@stappers.nl>
Received: from gpm.stappers.nl [213.84.119.166]
by spohr.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 1 (Debian))
id 1CEmvK-00059U-00; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 03:52:02 -0700
Received: by gpm.stappers.nl (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 1BBFE1800; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:52:01 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 12:52:01 +0200
To: martin makella <martin@makella.de>, 274028-done@bugs.debian.org
Subject: Closing Bug#274028: Critical Remarks
Message-ID: <20041005125201.Y9523@macwheel.xs4all.nl>
References: <F02420AF-1213-11D9-B1DB-000393ABF614@makella.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1;
protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="dTRY+exx+ndMGui/"
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <F02420AF-1213-11D9-B1DB-000393ABF614@makella.de>; from martin@makella.de on Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 02:34:42PM +0200
From: stappers@stappers.nl (Geert Stappers)
Delivered-To: 274028-done@bugs.debian.org
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60-bugs.debian.org_2004_03_25
(1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on spohr.debian.org
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.4 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HAS_BUG_NUMBER,
NO_QS_ASKED autolearn=no version=2.60-bugs.debian.org_2004_03_25
X-Spam-Level:
--dTRY+exx+ndMGui/
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 02:34:42PM +0200, martin makella wrote:
> Package: installation-reports=20
>=20
> Debian-installer-version: <cdimage-testing/daily/i386 23.09.2004>=20
> Date: 24.09.2004=20
> Method: cd-installation of above image ftp-server: ftp.de.debian (no=20
> proxy)=20
> Machine: network (desktop)=20
> Processor: intel P2=20
> Memory: 512MB=20
> Root Device: IDE=20
>=20
> Base System Installation Checklist:=20
> [O] =3D OK, [E] =3D Error (please elaborate below), [ ] =3D didn't try it=
=20
>=20
> Initial boot worked: [O]=20
> Configure network HW: [O]=20
> Config network: [O]=20
> Detect CD: [O]=20
> Load installer modules: [O]=20
> Detect hard drives: [O]=20
> Partition hard drives: [O]=20
> Create file systems: [O]=20
> Mount partitions: [O]=20
> Install base system: [O]=20
> Install boot loader: [O]=20
> Reboot: [O]=20
>=20
> Comments/Problems:=20
> During the installation no real problems were encountered,
So closing this install report.
> but I think, and so do many others,
> that for a linux-beginner it is still to difficult. =20
> Especially questions about which mailsystem to use and things=20
> concerning the network settings, a newcomer cannot really answer.
> Some people have no idea what this is all about.
> There should be a standard installation mode=20
> for beginners with basically no questions asked.
To me it reads:
Newbies could hurt them self.
Yes, that is very true. Consider it part of the learning proces.
Educate new users, tell them there are sharp knives and hot fires.
If you think the installation is too difficult for them,
then install the computer for them.
Or tell them to buy an installed computer.
Geert Stappers
--dTRY+exx+ndMGui/
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
iD8DBQFBYnzQOSINbgwa/7sRAiZeAKDIdQ6LV8nGBgy6WcOqgvkJKwwqwgCfWkAF
1FmGF82F5u02JOCl34HkW20=
=XZPB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--dTRY+exx+ndMGui/--
Reply to: