Re: new installer
On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 02:07:57AM -0800, Ethan Benson wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 11:29:43AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 09:12:56AM +0000, simon raven wrote:
> > > Le Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 23:52:58 -0800, Ethan Benson a écrit:
> > > > On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 09:16:52AM +0200, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > also .coff kernels don't even work until 2.4.23 (maybe).
> > >
> > > ask ben herrenschmidt about that actually. seems that they do work.
> >
> > Mmm, since you obviously care about oldworld pmacs, would you care of
> > sending us an overview of the different ways of booting on oldworld
> > pmacs, and where you get the kernels from for each of them. I gueesed
> > already the following :
> >
> > BootX : uses a macos (non-X) bootx program to boot the kernel, no idea
> > which kernel that is, where you get it from and if it supports an
> > initrd.
>
> vmlinux at root of source tree. initrd is supported.
Ok.
> > Quik : supports uncompressed kernels (the same as is used with yaboot)
> > and is used to boot oldworld systems from the harddisk. It seems that
> > the Performa 6360 does not work with Quik.
>
> check penguinppc.org/projects/quik/
Mmm, i don't really understand what quik is, from what i read at that
page, it seems it is only a linux program to set the OF variables to
load the kernel, or is it something more ? In particular i am baffled by
the way you set the boot-file OF variable, which is the same i do on my
pegasos.
>
> > miboot: is also a macos (non-X) ROM based tool, can boot compressed
> > kernels from a floppy, but no idea which kernel this is, and what is
> > used for initrd. Is this the arch/ppc/boot/images/miboot.image ?
>
> vmlinux at root of source tree, initrd is only supported as a
> secondary floppy the same way as x86 rescue + root is done.
Well, vmlinux at root is not a compressed kernel, so either you compress
it by hand, or you use something else.
> > plain OF : uses the .coff kernel, and apparently only works over a
> > serial OF console.
>
> all oldworlds default to sending OF out the serial port, booting a
> coff kernel must be done manually at the OF console, which you can't
> see without a serial terminal by default.
Ok.
> > And how do you think half of the open source contributors started ? Just
> > buy yourself a good C book, or use one of the numerous online tutorials,
> > and learn :)))
>
> that takes a great deal of time, longer then there is for d-i
> stuff. (but as i said eariler, d-i doesn't use C very much).
>
> > Well, there are actually various parts to the arch/subarch specific
> > stuff :
> >
> > --- Stage 0 ---
> >
> > 1) The initial booting, which uses the kernel-image udeb, but is not
> > really part of the debian-installer, as far as i can tell.
>
> it can't, initial booting proceedures vary wildly from arch to arch
> and to subarch to subarch.
Well, sure, but debian-installer sources also setup the kernel image and
needed stuff for the user to easily do the initial boot.
> > --- Stage 1 ---
> >
> > 2) Initial hardware detection in stage 1, searches for the CDROM, or an
> > alternate way of loading in the udebs.
> >
> > 3) Anna loads in the udebs, and has support for per arch/subarch udebs
> > list.
> >
> > --- Stage 2 ---
> >
> > 4) The keyboard chooser will propose keyboards accordying to your
> > arch/subarch.
> >
> > 5) Second stage hardware detection.
> >
> > 6) Partitioning and preparation of the filesystems.
>
> what is used on powerpc? parted's ui is utterly horrible and
> complelty deficient for some requirements of powerpc (such as creating
> an 800K Apple_Bootstrap partition (i recommend that be done on both
> new and oldworld since yaboot2 is likly to prefer, or require one on
> oldworld, yaboot1 and 2 require one on newworld always, size must be
> exactly 800K))
Well, it is hugely subarch dependent, but d-i has various different
stuff using libparted, among them autoparkit and partitioner. Mmm there
was a third one, and i guess yaboot-installer also use it.
> > 7) boot-loader and kernel installation
> >
> > --- Stage 3 ---
> >
> > 8) We reboot and run the normal base-install stuff, everything
> > arch/subarch specific should have been solved here, and this is not the
> > job of the debian-installer anyway.
>
> really by the time you get here subarch stuff becomes mostly
> irrelevant, subarch issues are mainly initial booting, bootloader
> setup, and partitioning.
Is that not what i said ?
> > Mmm, Peter, maybe you or someone could post or document what you showed
> > us on the Oldenburg blackboard.
> >
> > Anyway, i am doing kernel stuff, so i am mostly interested in 1) as well
> > as 7). I suppose 4), 5) and 6) should be ok for oldworld pmacs, as well
> > as 3). 2) maybe problematic if the oldworld pmacs are not able to load
> > udebs from the cdrom drive.
>
> the CDROM is fully usable once the linux kernel is booted, the CDROM
> is just not usable for booting the kernel initially.
Ok, so for oldworld pmac d-i support, we really only need to fix the
initial booting stuff, and the bootloader/kernel installation step.
Friendly,
Sven Luther
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