Bug#31450: boot-floppies 2.1.4 fails to build for m68k
Adam Di Carlo wrote:
> >> Example: in the m68k boot disks, basecont.txt is called
> >> base-contents, but there's no code in the actual boot-floppies
> >> packge that does this. That's a bit of a conundrum for me since it
> >> is probably done by hand; I can't just monitor code changes in CVS
> >> to pick up changes.
>
> > There seems to be code that does this, I haven't created
> > base-contents manually ...
>
> ?? From the top-level Makefile:
>
> release:: build docs
> rm -rf release
> mkdir -p release
> $(MAKE) -C documentation DESTDIR=$(shell pwd)/release install
> cp base-contents release/basecont.txt
>
> I see no code in the boot-floppies which puts a file, 'base-contents',
> into the release area.
Ok, will look into that. Just doing 'make release' will probably fix
it already (remember I had a hard time getting it to survive a make
build in the first place).
> If we want to call the file 'base-contents' on m68k, and basecont.txt
> on everything else (or whatever arrangement), it's easy to patch the
> top-level Makefile to do so. At which time, I shall update the
> documentation accordingly.
I don't object to using the standard name, I just never got around to
make release yet. I'm currently looking into why the keymaps.tgz is empty
and will build a new base disk etc. as soon as that's fixed and a few other
items cleaned up.
> > No, Mac boot floppies are made roughly like :
>
> [...]
> > The first three steps can be automated on any Linux
> > box. Manipulating the MacOS files is something I can't see any
> > feasible way even with hfsutils and macutils. But I haven't tried a
> > lot.
>
> URK.
Imagine my enthusiasm keeping the Mac boot floppies more or less in sync
with the Mac kernel development.
> > floppies are not an option to install anything from. Summary: 'copy
> > the floppy images to disk and click on the booter icon' is the most
> > common boot method on Atari, Amiga and Mac (yes, all of those have a
> > GUI OS :-).
>
> Yes -- what bugs the heck out of me is that the amiga/atari install
> system relies on stuff like 'amiga/amigainstall.lha' and
> 'atari/install.lha' which are not actually created by the
> boot-floppies package. Ok, I can copy the existing docuemntation out
> there but I can't replicate their setup, look at the files for the
> slink version or any of that.
>
> *sigh*
I'm pretty sure the Atari install kit can be built from the Linux
side. I can sort of test that; the TOS partitions on my SCSI disk have
been suffering from bit rot lately and I can't even start the booter
from these partitions anymore.
I know nothing about the AmigaOS side, waiting for Frank to resurface
tomorrow and explain how it's done in Linux (if it _can_ be done).
On the Mac side, it would take quite some time and hacking around until
I've figured it out, and there simply isn't time to do it.
> > - bootable CD for m68k? I don't think so. We hope to get the base
> > files, kernels, ramdisk and so on unpacked on the CD and bootable
> > from CD but three-way multisession is a bit over the top I
> > think. Franky had been working on the CD thing but got too busy to
> > continue that; I don't even have a CD drive, much less a writer,
> > don't know about the others.
>
> Hmm! From what I hear, bootable CD isn't even supported on m68k?
I can only speak for Atari; the CD-ROM driver isn't included in the ROMs
there and has to be loaded from the boot partition before the CD is
accessible.
Macs can boot off CD, but I don't know how to create those bootable CDs
there. The PPC people might have figured it out for us though.
Franky was experimenting with multisession CD on Amiga but I don't
recall if that would have been bootable. Even if it's possible, I'm
not sure if he will be able to spend much time on it (the real world
strikes again).
> Hmm? I don't understand this rant. I find Steve to be very
> reasonable and good; if he's not properly supporting m68k, you guys
> should go in and educate him a little.
Maybe it wasn't justified, I'm just plain annoyed about everybody producing
m68k CDs that don't work (such as LinuxDisks with Joliet extensions for
Mac68k, and no Joliet support in the 2.0 Mac kernels) and the poor users
complain to the m68k lists first. Had the CD manufacturers cared to follow
these lists for a while or even (gasp) asked for advice there, the whole
situation could have been avoided.
> I hope I hope we have a good CD m68k set. Try posting to
> <debian-cd@lists.debian.org>.
First things first - we need a good boot floppies package for m68k before
a good CD can be built.
> > - storage systems not supported by boot disks? All available drivers
> > are built as modules and can be loaded at install time. SCSI, IDE
> > disks and CD-ROMs are compiled in.
>
> Nice.
Uh, one thing occurred to me in that context: are IDE CD-ROMs supported
by ix86, and what device do they use? Are the /dev/hd* files sufficient?
> On all platforms (atari, amiga, mac)? Not supported? Why do we make
> floppies at all?
For hysterical reasons I guess. Atari can use floppies to install, they
are not all that horrible there. And Mac users can compress the floppy
images and transport them over to their Mac maybe.
> > - cfdisk is irrelevant for m68k, we have atari-fdisk, amiga-fdisk
> > and mac-fdisk. (VME??)
>
> Do these act pretty much like fdisk? Can I include the fdisk man page
> and have that be useful/meaningful? If not, where can I find
> documentation for these programs?
The act like cfdisk in that they display or modify partition tables, but
both partition table formats, the method to mark partitions as Linux
data or swap partitions and the exact user interface differ. atari-fdisk
is more like the pre-curses fdisk, mac-fdisk doesn't use curses either and
isn't very much fdisk-like. Never used amiga-fdisk.
Descriptions should be in the corresponding man pages. Both Atari and Amiga
fdisk have manpages. The Mac manpage is mysteriously missing ...
> I note that the install manuals for m68k debian generally recommend
> using the system's native partition managers rather than
> {mac,amiga,atari}-fdisk. Is there a good reason for this? I.e., does
> the {mac,amiga,atari}-fdisk suck?
For one, they are relatively new and not as thoroughly tested as the
native OS tools. On the other side, they are simple CLI based tools,
no sophisticated mouse action. That are the main reasons.
> > - overclocking: Amiga and Atari users should know what they're
> > doing, for Macs, there's only one known acceleration (9.81 m/s^2).
>
> Um, you think I should cut this section? I still think it's ok...
A general warning (the U.S. Surgeon General warns: overclocking your
hardware can pose a serious mental health problem) is sure OK. If we
need to be more specific it's on the possible problems with bad RAM
expansions on Atari TT (Roman??) or problems with poorly designed
processor upgrades (Afterburner 040 on Falcons; Mac in general). That's
all covered in the FAQ I think.
> > - bad RAM: Atari TT RAM boards are notorious, Amiga users may need
> > to exclude RAM using a booter memfile, no known problems with Macs
> > (on top of the usual :-)).
>
> Noted, but not really understood what advise to give.
Some sorts of RAM expansion boards are problematic. IIRC it's the one with
the 4 MBit chips (lesser chips) that pose a too high load for the Vcc
leads on the PCB during RAM refresh.
Generally, the kernel should first be loaded in (slow but safe) ST-RAM,
the -s booter option does just that.
Amigas have a special booter control file to exclude parts of RAM in the
system (i.e. RAM on the Zorro2 bus that can't handle RMW instructions).
The booter documentation or the m68k FAQ should detail that.
> > - Note that all m68k archs (VME may be different?) have to be booted
> > from the native OS. You need to make sure you even stored the house
> > key in a safe place so you can enter the remodeled house
> > again.
>
> ??
The remodeling analogy was nice but I couldn't find anything close enough
it seems.
If you repartition your startup disks (Mac for example) you have to
make sure you have a working copy of the MacOS install media so you can
reinstall MacOS after the partitioning wiped out your previous install.
> > Ataris have the bulk of the OS in ROM, Mac users need to have
> > the install floppies for MacOS. Amiga ??
>
> You keep mentioning this, but yet, from
> <URL:http://www.linux-m68k.org/debian-atari.html>, it says,
> "initially, only the floppy install method is supported".
That was before I built the install.lzh. The boot floppy images are directly
built by the boot-floppies package
> Can you tell me the minimum RAM needed to install debian m68k, BTW?
Greater than 4 MB; there's a hardwired limit in the dbootstrap or whatsits
name. 5 MB on a b/w Mac SE/30 worked fine.
I'm sure we could get down to 4 MB if the ramdisk can be made smaller yet,
I just won't be able to test it.
Michael
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