Re: "Debian women may leave due to 'sexist' post"
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:41 AM, Kevin Mark <kevin.mark@verizon.net> wrote:
> So are you saying that the conduct of a few folks on
> -devel or -project is sufficient for you to leave? Or an 'insufficient'
> response by the DPL? or by other list members? I suspect that you are
> leaning towards 'yes' and also Miriam. It would be sad for Debian to
> loose folks to such circumstances. I dont know how Debian as a community
> can address such an issue. Would you suggest that they be thrown out?
> Would there be sufficient support? If there was not, what would that
> mean for Debian?
As I said, I wouldn't leave, in the areas of Debian I spend my time
there are some supportive and friendly folks. I just have my
reservations about expanding my involvement in the future and right
now I'm reluctant to recommend development within Debian to my
thin-skinned peers.
I don't have a suggestion on how to address it, it's a delicate issue
and I think there are others who are more involved with the project
culture who can help answer this question. I think that's part of the
reason an entire Debian Women project exists. My mail was simply to
say that I may have difficulty expanding my involvement due to the
culture on some of these lists, I am trying to start a discussion. And
if the main solution here comes down to "ignore things that offend
you, Debian is just like that" that's fine, but it means this might
not be the right place for me to contribute a lot of time to.
And I am saying "may/might" a lot, as we all know there are a lot of
variables that go into a choice to contribute. Perhaps when the dust
settles I will choose that ignoring the negativity and forging ahead
is the way to go because working on Debian is worth it, but I don't
believe I'm the only one questioning things right now and we all may
make different choices.
> I understand that so far Ubuntu has been good in enforcing its 'code' to
> limit *-ist comments on irc and MLs, which I like. I hope its the same
> in 10 years.
Me too. Ubuntu hasn't been perfect over the years, but I believe
having a CoC in place has gone very far to limit the ability for
negativity to spread throughout the project. And I'd like to stress
that I wasn't quite jumping on the "Debian needs a CoC" boat. I
understand the reluctance here. My mention of it was simply to
illustrate that today in F/OSS, when I look for projects to volunteer
my time with a CoC is an appealing positive.
I sincerely hope this is all just typical freeze/release-related
trouble and will certainly stick around through it all. I think part
of what I wanted to hear and will impact how I move forward was what
has already come up in this thread: "this is just a noisy minority"
"most of the project doesn't feel this way" "it's freeze and this
always happens, wait it out and things will get better" etc. Seeing
*some* positivity goes a long way right now.
Cheers,
--
Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2
http://www.princessleia.com
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