Fwd: (Debian's Two Choices) The influx of women and the outflux of men. The end of debian as a distro and it's emergance as a women's rights pulpit.
Sorry, i mixed up some addresses. This was supposed to go to the list
long ago. I am not out to offend anyone, please do not take this the
wrong way.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: annabelle tully <atully@gmail.com>
Date: Jun 11, 2006 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: (Debian's Two Choices) The influx of women and the
outflux of men. The end of debian as a distro and it's emergance as a
women's rights pulpit.
To: Debian women terminate <debianwomengoaway@yahoo.com>
Funny how this would come up here, as I had a discussion about Debian
Women earlier.
I, myself, am not a feminist, as I think what feminism in general has
become is more sexist than it was in the first place. I am all for
individualism.
I also think that a seperate group for women is sexist and a bad idea.
I don't believe that women need a seperate group to join Debian or the
computer society in general. I sure didn't. Women do not need to be
held in the hand or need a seperate support group to be able to join
Debian. What it is doing now, is giving a bad image for women
intrested in the first place, as there is a group of women just doing
barely anything technical, and it gives the image that women are
unable to do anything technical. I disagree with this. I'm not saying
this is what Debian Women is doing, just that it's the image it is
reflecting at the moment. Wether this is my conception of it, or the
majorities conception of it does not matter to me at the moment.
And lets face it. There is not a minority of women in the computer
buisness because of sexism at all. It all comes down to personal
choice and intrest. I have always been the only girl in this branch,
and I got my first computer at age five, and I have never experienced
sexism. Not once. This does not mean that it does not exist, but I am
saying that having been doing this for quite some time in various
computer environments and never experienced it, itmeans that it's
*probably* not as much sexism as some people make it seem. Creating
seperate groups in a way like this, might inspire more sexism than it
prevents. Let women join like any other person would, let women work
and learn like anyone else. It's not like we need special help to do
anything. If things are going to be equal, they should be equal. Not
all men are technical, we don't make seperate groups for them to join
it either.
Do not take this the wrong way, I encourage girls do to computer
science, but I think this is the wrong way to do it. I do however see
the good intentions behind it.
Regards,
Annabelle Tully
On 6/11/06, Debian women terminate <debianwomengoaway@yahoo.com> wrote:
MJ Ray: Just because a man disagrees with your
feminist women revering world view does not mean he is
raising his objection just to blindly anger people.
Debian has two choices: continue promoting feminism
and women's rights, chastising men who do not believe
in these things, and all around make debian a
welcoming place for (feminist minded) women and an
unwelcoming place for men (men who have build all
linux distributions mostly out of their own free time
(as)), and continue to turn from the best linux
distibution who had at it's center free software into
yet another political party which wholly supports
women's rights and spurns men's rights (the two are
mutually exclusive if men and women are to get
married) OR cut Debian women loose, welcome the men it
has spurned back into the fold, and focus on free
software rather then being a "progressive humanist
bully pulpit" supporting women's rights and spouting
feminist mantras.
Those are the choices, you cannot drive men away and
expect to survive as a distro. You CAN drive men away
if you wish to become a feminist political party.
--------------------------------------------
MJ Ray Wrote:
Do you think it's fine to ignore good advice on
dealing with
disruptive behaviour just because the target is
debian-women?
Must you sink to the level of the attacker?
I think it's better to show him how little support his
views have,
even among opponents of the current debian-women
effort. When he
tries to mislead or starts flaming, slap him back.
I'm surprised
we're three mails in and that From-line is still not
banned for
being invalid and a flame source.
--
MJR/slef
Laux nur mia opinio: vidu
http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Bv sekvu http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
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