Re: GR: Removal of non-free

[Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org>]

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 16:53:09 +0000, Andrew Suffield <asuffield@debian.org> said: 

> On Tue, Dec 30, 2003 at 11:27:10AM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
>> Could you tell me about the plan for dealing with contrib and
>> non-free?

> The plan is for somebody else (ie, not Debian) to deal with them, if
> they actually care. I have no interest in them, so it's not my plan.

>> For example, if I see a real and inclusive effort to set up a
>> separate "project" to maintain and support contrib and non-free --
>> one we could perhaps link to from distrib/netinst (one I could
>> join, if I so desired) clause 5 from the social contract (thus
>> allowing this hypothetical "other project" to take over contrib and
>> non-free).

> It sounds like you are saying "I will support the removal of
> non-free if the people who do not want to support non-free do the
> work to continue supporting it". That seems to be missing the point,
> to me.


	I think you are missing the point. I think the idea is that if
 *somehow*, it is feasible to support software that fails to meet the
 DFSG, but is deemed useful enough to be packaged by a Debian
 developer (ie, someone who has agreed to the social contract), then I
 (raul) would support this resolution.

	The opponents of the non-free packages do not have to do this
 work. But some votes would be garnered by the proposal were this work
 done; is all. You may chose to ignore this statement if you wish,
 especially if you think you have no need for the votes of such
 people. 

> The point is that perhaps the majority of project members no longer
> wish to include or support non-free. Apparently you are not a part
> of this group, from your comments so far. We've been trying to
> figure out whether or not this is the case (by voting on it) for
> about three years now.

	Ah.  If all this GR is a trial baloon to see the level of
 support the non-free packages have, ok. If you want to actually
 remove non-free from debian machines, and you wish the GR to actually
 pass, then well, it would well behoove you to woo people on the
 fence.

	Yes, there is no need for you to heed my advice.

> This is not about restructuring, or increasing the division between
> Debian and non-free; this is "Do we, as a project, want to support
> non-free? [y/n]". You answer appears to be "Yes [but I wouldn't mind
> if we called it something else]".

	My answer, at this point, is likely to be a qualified maybe
 (speaking for myself).  This is not an issue that lends itself to
 black and white solutions (from my perspective).

> I see no point in responding to your concerns that relate directly
> to how you would answer this question (since I'm not particularly
> interested in convincing people either way; other people might want
> to advance some arguments about why we should or shouldn't support
> non-free) - you can vote when the ballot goes out. It's not a "brush
> off", per se, it's that I'm not concerned how you vote - just that
> people can understand what the proposal does and does not do.

	Hmm. This is unusual,as far as voting goes, since in the
 majority of votes in my experience the proponents or the opponents of
 the motion had an actual interest in the outcome, and tended to try
 and convince the fence sitters.

	But since at this point I am marginally opposed to you
 proposition, I am not complaining. By all means refuse to try and
 convince people to try and support your proposition; at the moment,
 that suits me just fine.

	manoj
-- 
It is not every question that deserves an answer. Publilius Syrus
Manoj Srivastava   <srivasta@debian.org>  <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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