Re: Anyone newly interested in Debian - you're welcome here
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 10, 2025 at 02:59:33PM -0400, Jeffrey Walton wrote:
> I don't think removing email workflows (which implies removing mailing
> lists) is wise.
>
> Debian can support new ways to participate, like Social Media and
> Chat, for Gen-Z. However, I don't believe it is an either/or
> proposition. Debian should support email, mailing lists and other
> methods for everyone.
I believe it's either/or only because once alternatives are provided and
decently supported, people actively choose not to use email. And if the
alternatives aren't provided then people ultimately choose to use
something that doesn't require them to use email.
There are some in Debian who are actively pursuing this. Debian's Salsa,
for example, is a private GitLab instance, so that's web-based.
There doesn't need to be (and shouldn't be) a stated goal to "kill
email"; the issue is that email is doing a good job of dying all by
itself and that is easy to reverse.
Salsa proponents recognise that many software developers want a web
forge, not a mailing list, not a mailing list for patches and bug
discussion, not a web interface that is merely a transcript of some
emails.
Then you've got the recent introduction of tag2upload which is making it
possible to use a git-based workflow without the addition of a lot of
Debian-specific tooling, lots of which happens over email. This is good
because it makes collaboration more frictionless like GitHub without any
of the downsides of being captured by GitHub.
Salsa, and tag2upload, and things like them, are not without
controversy. There's plenty of Debian Developers who wish they didn't
exist and think that the current ways of working while imperfect are
good enough. That changing things in ways they don't like is too high a
price to pay for hypothetical collaboration with younger developers.
Like with this, only time will tell.
> If Debian switches to Social Media and Chat, then folks like me -- who
> do not participate in the social networking experiments -- will lose
> out.
You are reacting to a threat of something you like being taken away,
which no one has proposed, even though what you like will fade away over
you lifetime just because it is becoming less relevant. That's just
life, isn't it?
Surely you must concede there is no rescuing email at this point. It's
not ever going to get back to its glory days as a means of
collaboration. We can move with that or not.
I'll still be here too, but we'll just be talking to each other. I like
mailing lists too but they are a relic now. The people that are
interested in Linux but have no desire to seek support by email will be
elsewhere.
Members of the Debian community certainly can take the position that
they don't welcome those users, or that those users are imaginary, or that
they exist but they are living their life wrongly. I don't think those
would be good choices though, so while Andrew is discussing welcoming
environments for user support I thought I would make that case.
Thanks,
Andy
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