Re: How can we change the keyboard layout? (was: what keyboard do you use?)
On Mon 05 Feb 2024 at 21:06:30 (+0100), hw wrote:
> On Mon, 2024-02-05 at 15:26 +0100, Loris Bennett wrote:
> > hw <hw@adminart.net> writes:
> > > On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 18:23 +0000, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> > > > On 4 Feb 2024 12:08 -0600, from n0nb@n0nb.us (Nate Bargmann):
> > > > > xmodmap trickery? I am running GNOME on Wayland.
> > > >
> > > > Or whatever the equivalent in Wayland (or GNOME) might be. Either way,
> > > > surely there must be _some_ way to map (sets of) keyboard scan codes
> > > > to symbols or actions, and that way is almost certainly reconfigurable
> > > > because otherwise everyone would be stuck with the exact same keyboard
> > > > layout, which would make for a rather poor internationalization/
> > > > localization experience.
> > >
> > > We are stuck with it :( Last time I checked, KDE isn't any better.
> > >
> > > With xmodmap, I was able to adjust the layout as needed. With
> > > wayland, I can't do that anymore and I'm stuck with an US layout ---
> > > which my keyboard fortunately physically has --- because some keys on
> > > German keyboards are so badly placed and configured that I need to be
> > > able to change the layout if want to use a German keyboard with a
> > > German layout.
> >
> > Maybe I have misunderstood the problem, but I use Gnome with Wayland and
> > regularly switch between US and German layouts. I just added the German
> > layout in the 'Keyboard' section of Gnome's Settings and switch with the
> > default shortcut of 'Super + space'.
>
> Yes, it's a misunderstanding: How can we change the keyboard layout?
>
> We can only pick or add another of the available layouts, but we can't
> change them. If I were using a German keyboard, I could pick a German
> layout, and it would be a good starting point --- but I still won't be
> able to change the layout. Some characters on a German keyboard (and
> layout) are placed very badly, and I need to change some of them for
> the keyboard to be usable.
>
> And try to figure out how to press ^] on a German keyboard, for
> example, like telnet used to tell you. It's no problem at all with an
> US keyboard without any modification. With a German keyboard, you
> have to press something like AltGr+Shift+Strg+] ... It took me like
> 30 years or so before I managed. And what the hell is 'Strg' supposed
> to mean?
Control.
> So how do we change keyboard layouts when using wayland? Why is there
> no way to do that in gnome settings (or KDEs equivalent) like there
> should be?
>
> Picking from/adding a bunch of available keyboard layouts is an
> entirely obsolete feature. I never need that. I only need to be able
> to change the keyboard layout after picking one once in the installer.
>
> In case I switch to a different keyboard which I might do every so
> many years when I feel like doing that, I also need to change it for
> the console in the first place. How that is done changes like all the
> time, and when it's not right, the keyboard won't work right,
> especially in that the function keys to switch between consoles don't
> work[1]. So that's a big issue right there --- and then I need to be
> able to change the keyboard layout in wayland sessions unless I use an
> US keyboard. But I only have one of those.
>
> It's certainly a good feature for the 7 people who keep between
> switching different keyboard layouts and/or keyboards frequently. But
> the relevant feature everyone needs is now entirely missing.
>
> [1]: Maybe that changed with wayland; I haven't tried yet.
"The German layout differs from the English (US and UK) layouts in
four major ways:
The positions of the "Z" and "Y" keys are switched. In English,
the letter "y" is very common and the letter "z" is relatively
rare, whereas in German the letter "z" is very common and the
letter "y" is very uncommon.[1] The German layout places "z" in a
position where it can be struck by the index finger, rather than
by the weaker little finger.
Part of the keyboard is adapted to include umlauted vowels (ä, ö,
ü) and the sharp s (ß). (Some newer types of German keyboards
offer the fixed assignment Alt+++H → ẞ for its capitalized
version.)
Some of special key inscriptions are changed to a graphical symbol
(e.g. ⇪ Caps Lock is an upward arrow, ← Backspace a leftward
arrow). Most of the other abbreviations are replaced by German
abbreviations (thus e.g. "Ctrl" is translated to its German
equivalent "Strg", for Steuerung). "Esc" remains as such. (See:
"Key labels" below)
Like many other non-American keyboards, German keyboards change
the right Alt key into an Alt Gr key to access a third level of
key assignments. This is necessary because the umlauts and some
other special characters leave no room to have all the special
symbols of ASCII, needed by programmers among others, available on
the first or second (shifted) levels without unduly increasing the
size of the keyboard."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_keyboard_layout
Cheers,
David.
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