Re: linux kernel and nvidia - never ending story
Hello Hans,
I understand your frustration, I was also frustrated sometimes back when
I used nVidia, but IMO Debian is not to blame here, the situation is
completely the responsibility of nVidia.
0. After reading your post again, I realize that sections 1 to 4 of my
reply do not really apply to your situation. I leave them in my text
though, because in my opionion they describe the general problem with
nvidia quite well.
1. You are probably not talking about Debian stable and the kernel that
ships with it. I have not checked, but the binary nVidia packages almost
certainly have not disappeared from Debian stable non-free within a
release cycle. Nothing should have broken with the latest dot kernel
update. If you have problems, please specify further. Testing/unstable
may break at any time, you have to deal with that, especially when using
non-free software, which can only be fixed to a certain amount by the
maintainers.
2. If you are talking about kernels newer than the one in Debian stable,
the problem is a problem by design that can and will happen with every
Linux distribution. The reason is simply that the kernel interfaces
which nVidia uses are not stable and were never intended to be used by
non-free software. Eventually, nVidia will adapt their interface module
and release a new driver package. Eventually, this will be integrated in
Debian non-free. It is a race between the kernel developers and the
nvidia developers, which nvidia never can win. If at all, you can blame
Linus and the developers for not providing a stable interface for
proprietary non-free software. I fear they will laugh at you, at best.
Some kernel developers even have the opinion that it is a GPL violation
what nvidia does.
3. If you are not satisfied how fast updated nvidia drivers are
integrated into testing/unstable, you could always install the drivers
manually from the website of nvidia. It is not very hard to do if you
are used to Linux.
4. Given the circumstances, I feel the nvidia integration in Debian
quite smooth, on stable it works almost out of the box (if your card is
not too new, but that is a general issue with the stable concept of Debian).
5. I only now realize that your card is actually too OLD, sorry. What
should I say, the latest release of the 340 branch from nvidia is dating
back to 2019.12.23. If they dont support their older products anymore
themselves, do you expect Debian to hack their closed source driver?
6. If nvidia would only be a little bit more cooperative, nouveau would
be in a much better state. I found it usable for older cards, although
the prorietary driver is of course much better in terms of performance
and power saving.
7. Intel (what I use these days) and AMD support Linux in a much cleaner
way, avoiding many of the problems with the nvidia blob.
8. If you buy a system with the goal to use it over many years, I can
only reccomend to choose hardware components wich can be well supported
by free drivers. Please support companies that support Linux well, like
Intel and AMD.
Best Regards,
Christian
On 2022-03-07 19:49 UTC+0100, Hans wrote:
> Dear list,
>
> how find the correct words, without being upset or stepping on someones feet.
> But I believe, debian hates Nvidia, and debian does not want, to use Nvidia.
>
> I am now for a long time using debian and also using nvidia graphic cards for
> almost the same long time.
>
> But whenever debian ships a new kernel version, the proprietrary nvidia kernel
> modules can not be built. If lucky, there is a patch for it after months.
>
> Yes, modern Nvidia cards are supported, but using an older notebook you can
> not change the graphics card.
>
> But this is not a problem of Nvidia, not IMO it is a problem with the kernel
> developers. Suddenly, with a kernel the gcc was updated, oh, now the kernel
> module does not want it any more. Wtf? Or, with the new kernel, the kernel
> module crashes during building, but builds perfectly at the older kernel.
>
> And suddenly the kernel modul of nvidia disappears completely from the repo,
> problems solved? Get lost, you foolish users with old hardware, buy new
> hardware! What???
>
> Oh, and when someone says: Hey, use the nouveau driver, then tell him, nouveau
> is not working.
>
> I have several older notebooks, that my customers use. They worked perfectly
> with the proprietrary driver from Nvidia. But after update to bullseye, it was
> hardly get them running again. And why? They have an old graphics card in
> their notebooks, and they use Nvidia cards, specially the legacy 340xx.
>
> But:
>
> 1. no problem, Install nvidia kernel 340xx, oh no, it is no more in the repo,
> but
>
> 2. no problem, hey, use nouveau, oh no, nouveau crashes and freezes X, but
>
> 3. no problem, build just the downloaded 340xx from buster, oh no, does not
> build, wrong gcc installed, gcc to new, but
>
> 4. no problem, just downgrade gcc to the old one, oh no, many other packages
> need to be deinstalled, too, but
>
> 5. no problem, just do it, oh no, does not build with the latest kernel, but
>
> 6. no problem, just downgrade the kernel, too, oh no, no kernel from bullseye
> is working, but
>
> 7. no problem, just reactivate buster and install latest kernel from buster,
> and oh yes,
>
> 8. old kernel from buster let build 340xx, but oh no, kernel old...
>
> Well, I and these procedures are now accompanies me since years. New kernel,
> and building fails. Youu feel lost, you feel anger, can you believe me?
>
> In earlier times, debian potato and so, there were always prebuild kernel
> modules for graphic cards, Nvidia or AMD or whatever. Today these are gone,
> and people with older cards are lost. IMO here debian lost a lots of its
> quality.
>
> I thought a long time, if I should write this, and maybe I have not found the
> correct words. I do not want to harsh anyone or attack anyone, you know what I
> mean.
>
> But I felt in my heart, I had to say it.
>
> Please apologize, if someone is feeling agry about me now, this was not
> intended. And thanks for reading this.
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
http://www.cb-fraggle.de
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