Re: There is no choice
On 9/21/2014 5:15 AM, Bret Busby wrote:
> On 21/09/2014, Jerry Stuckle <jstuckle@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 9/20/2014 4:20 PM, Don Armstrong wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Sep 2014, lee wrote:
>>>> These few people are also very concerned with preventing other people,
>>>> particularly users, from doing something which would contribute to
>>>> what they claim that they are doing.
>>>
>>> Exactly how are Debian Developers preventing others from contributing?
>>>
>>> Almost everything we do is publicly available. Nothing is stopping
>>> anyone from contributing to Debian, proposing patches, or even forking
>>> Debian entirely if you want.
>>>
>>> In all of these separate threads, you have been doing little but
>>> maligning people who are volunteering for Debian. It's not a nice thing
>>> to do, it's not pleasant to read, and in doing so, you're actively
>>> draining existing contributor's desire to continue working on Debian.
>>>
>>> Please stop.
>>>
>>
>> Don, I can understand your frustration. But please understand the
>> frustration of the users.
>>
>
> And, I can tell you, that, as a user, it is frustrating, and quite
> irritating, all of the bitching on the list, that is directed at the
> Debian developers.
>
> Can we please have a list established, that is purely for providing
> support for users, and, that is free of the perpetual bitching -
> systemd this and systemd that?
>
Obviously it is important enough to enough users that it continues here.
And shutting people up is not going to make the problem go away. It
will, however, make users go away. I, for one, am looking at other
systems now. And I think it is highly likely this path will force
another fork of Debian, as occurred when Ubuntu forked.
> And, as we have all the shite to which we have been subjected, on this
> list, regarding systemd (which shite and bitching, is about as
> relevant to providing assistance to users, as the debate about the
> scottish referendum and british politcs), if the systemd stuff
> continues, can someone please pull the plug on it and impose automated
> censoring of everything that includes the string "sytemd" and other
> bitching about the Devian developers?
>
Only a few supporters of systemd call it shite and bitching, and try to
shut off the subject. Others look at the real issues involved.
I haven't said much until now, but I have followed the subject in depth
the whole time. And I, for one, am very happy this was brought to my
attention. It has allowed me to make an intelligent decision as to
whether to upgrade or go to another distro.
> I realise that the objective of the Debian Project, is tied up in the
> word "free", and, thence, mailing lists free of moderation, but the
> way that the bitching on this list, has been going, it is
> encouragement for the public to avoid Debian and all that it entails,
> and, I believe that the bitching about the conduct of the Debian
> developers, warrants moderation, so that the list can become useful,
> and, can dulfill the objective iof providing assistance to users,
> instead of being designed to drive users away.
>
>
Censoring a conversation has never solved a problem or made it go away.
It will not do so here, either.
Jerry
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