Why do you refuse to install systemd-shim? Just because it has "systemd" in the name? Providing systemd-shim or similar is really about the only thing Debian can do about upstreams deciding to make their packages dependent on Systemd. The Gnome and KDE situations would be no different if Debian had decided to stick with Sysvinit. Learn to use FVWM. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA