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Re: Newby can't get Xwindows running



On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 09:52:17AM +1000, David Moore wrote:
> > From: Micha Feigin [mailto:michf@post.tau.ac.il]
> > 
> > On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 03:51:13PM +1000, David Moore wrote:
> > > As a complete novice to Linux, please bear with me if my explanation of
> > > the problem is confused.
> > >
> > > I installed Debian 3.0 r2 woody kernel 2.2.20 (many times on 2 different
> > > machines) using defaults and keeping as simple as possible, but I have
> > > not been able to get XWindows running.
> > >
> > 
> > If its a workstation and not a server I would get the new installer
> > beta (sarge) and install either testing or unstable. The version of X
> > there and the kernel version is much newer and could solve some
> > problems, also IIRC the installer has some hardware recognition (don't
> > know if for X though).
> > 
> > I looked at the X version in stable and it looks like its 3.3.6 (which
> > is very-very old). If you want to use stable go to
> > http://www.backports.org/ and see how to add the backport packages
> > (there is a HOWTO and installation instructions) and
> > upgrade X (its 4.2.1 there although unstable and testing already
> > have 4.3).
> > 
> > unstable is more stable then it sounds (I rarely have problems and then
> > it will just inhibit me from installing problematic packages unless I
> > bypass things), testing is ok now since its entering a freezing state
> > on its way to become stable, although usually unstable is more stable
> > and secure then testing. For a desktop unstable is usually the best
> > solution (unless you want to run stable with back-ports).
> > 
> > You could also try the knoppix (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/),
> > meppis (http://www.mepis.org/) which have good hardware recognition,
> > can install to the hardisk or run of a cd and are based on mix of
> > debian testing/unstable.
> 
> I will take your advice and get sarge. Meanwhile I don't tolerate
> disobedient software and will persist with woody a little longer - it's a
> learning experience! 
> 
> My main interest in linux is as an alternative to nt server, so the server
> functionality will be important once I start to find my way around.
> 

Everything has server functionality in linux. Stable is mostly meant
for production servers where you don't care about features and don't
want much change. Its for minimal maintenance rock solid servers.

> > 
> > > I used taskel to select: XWindows, Desktop environment and C/C++
> > >
> > > It boots into the bash shell fine except that during boot-up a message
> > > appears: "Modprobe can't locate char-major-10-135"  (the pause key
> > > doesn't halt the screen during boot-up so other important message might
> > > flash past before I can write them down)
> > >
> > > I have a Matrox MGA G200 - 16Mb
> > > Phillips SL200 19" monitor
> > > MS 2 button mouse on PS2 port
> > >
> > > The problem is, when I try to run X, XFree386, xdm, kdm or gdm it does
> > > not go to VGA mode but spews forth dialogue including the following 
> > > lines which seem significant:
> > >
> > 
> > could you post the output of running startx (try also as root to make
> > sure that there is no permission problems) and the file
> 
> how do I pipe the output from startx to a file?
> 

startx > startx.out 2>&1

This will pipe the standard output to the file startx.out (file
descriptor 1) and then pipe standard error (file descriptor 2) to the
standard output.

The order is important, since if you pipe stderr to stdout before
piping stdout, then stderr will go to the screen (it goes to where the
original file descriptor is pointing at the time of the pipe command).

> 
> > /var/log/XFree86.0.log which may help to see the error messages.
> > 
> 
> here is var/log/XFree86.0.log .....
> 
> 
> This is a pre-release version of XFree86, and is not supported in any
> way.  Bugs may be reported to XFree86@XFree86.Org and patches submitted
> to fixes@XFree86.Org.  Before reporting bugs in pre-release versions,
> please check the latest version in the XFree86 CVS repository
> (http://www.XFree86.Org/cvs)
> 
> XFree86 Version 4.1.0.1 / X Window System

Ok, its 4.1 and not 3.3.6 which is much better. It would also mean that
what I said in previous mail about /etc/X11/XF86Config needs to be
changed to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 (debian specific change in setup file
name to allow versions 3 and 4 to live in parallel)

> (protocol Version 11, revision 0, vendor release 6510)
> Release Date: 21 December 2001
> 	If the server is older than 6-12 months, or if your card is
> 	newer than the above date, look for a newer version before
> 	reporting problems.  (See http://www.XFree86.Org/FAQ)
> Build Operating System: Linux 2.6.3-bk2 i686 [ELF] 
> Module Loader present
> (==) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Mon May  3 09:01:35 2004
> (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config-4"
> Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
>          (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
>          (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
> (==) ServerLayout "Default Layout"
> (**) |-->Screen "Default Screen" (0)
> (**) |   |-->Monitor "Generic Monitor"
> (**) |   |-->Device "Generic Video Card"
> (**) |-->Input Device "Generic Keyboard"
> (**) Option "XkbRules" "xfree86"
> (**) XKB: rules: "xfree86"
> (**) Option "XkbModel" "pc104"
> (**) XKB: model: "pc104"
> (**) Option "XkbLayout" "us"
> (**) XKB: layout: "us"
> (==) Keyboard: CustomKeycode disabled
> (**) |-->Input Device "Configured Mouse"
> (**) |-->Input Device "Generic Mouse"

It is looking for two mice here, one called  "Configured Mouse" and one
called "Generic Mouse", there will be two input sections fro these and
IIRC one will be ps2 and one usb.

> (WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" does not exist.
> 	Entry deleted from font path.
> (**) FontPath set to
> "unix/:7100,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled,/usr
> /lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/S
> peedo,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi"
> (==) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
> (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules"
> (--) using VT number 9
> 

This is strange, it should be VT 7 I believe, but not a problem in
itself.

> (WW) Cannot open APM
> (II) Module ABI versions:
> 	XFree86 ANSI C Emulation: 0.1
> 	XFree86 Video Driver: 0.4
> 	XFree86 XInput driver : 0.2
> 	XFree86 Server Extension : 0.1
> 	XFree86 Font Renderer : 0.2
> (II) Loader running on linux
> (II) LoadModule: "bitmap"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a
> (II) Module bitmap: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2
> (II) Loading font Bitmap
> (II) LoadModule: "pcidata"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libpcidata.a
> (II) Module pcidata: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 0.1.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (II) PCI: Probing config type using method 1
> (II) PCI: Config type is 1
> (II) PCI: stages = 0x03, oldVal1 = 0x00000000, mode1Res1 = 0x80000000
> (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex)
> (II) PCI: 00:00:0: chip 1106,0305 card 0000,0000 rev 81 class 06,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:01:0: chip 1106,8305 card 0000,0000 rev 00 class 06,04,00 hdr
> 01
> (II) PCI: 00:07:0: chip 1106,0686 card 1106,0000 rev 40 class 06,01,00 hdr
> 80
> (II) PCI: 00:07:1: chip 1106,0571 card 0000,0000 rev 06 class 01,01,8a hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:07:2: chip 1106,3038 card 0925,1234 rev 16 class 0c,03,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:07:3: chip 1106,3038 card 0925,1234 rev 16 class 0c,03,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:07:4: chip 1106,3057 card 0000,0000 rev 40 class 06,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:07:5: chip 1106,3058 card 1462,3400 rev 50 class 04,01,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 00:08:0: chip 10ec,8139 card a0a0,0027 rev 10 class 02,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: 01:00:0: chip 102b,0521 card 102b,ff03 rev 01 class 03,00,00 hdr
> 00
> (II) PCI: End of PCI scan
> (II) LoadModule: "scanpci"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a
> (II) Module scanpci: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 0.1.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (II) UnloadModule: "scanpci"
> (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libscanpci.a
> (II) Host-to-PCI bridge:
> (II) PCI-to-ISA bridge:
> (II) Host-to-PCI bridge:
> (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge:
> (II) Bus 0: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,0,0), BCTRL: 0x08 (VGA_EN is set)
> (II) Bus 0 I/O range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B]
> (II) Bus 0 non-prefetchable memory range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B]
> (II) Bus 0 prefetchable memory range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B]
> (II) Bus 1: bridge is at (0:1:0), (0,1,1), BCTRL: 0x0c (VGA_EN is set)
> (II) Bus 1 I/O range:
> (II) Bus 1 non-prefetchable memory range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xd4000000 - 0xd6ffffff (0x3000000) MX[B]
> (II) Bus 1 prefetchable memory range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xd7000000 - 0xd7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B]
> (II) Bus -1: bridge is at (0:7:0), (0,-1,0), BCTRL: 0x08 (VGA_EN is set)
> (II) Bus -1 I/O range:
> (II) Bus -1 non-prefetchable memory range:
> (II) Bus -1 prefetchable memory range:
> (II) Bus -1: bridge is at (0:0:0), (-1,-1,0), BCTRL: 0x08 (VGA_EN is set)
> (II) Bus -1 I/O range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B]
> (II) Bus -1 non-prefetchable memory range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B]
> (II) Bus -1 prefetchable memory range:
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B]
> (--) PCI:*(1:0:0) Matrox MGA G200 AGP rev 1, Mem @ 0xd7000000/24,
> 0xd4000000/14, 0xd5000000/23

It finds the card here and says its AGP so you will need the agpgart
module loaded, but it looks like it is from the output farther on.

> (II) Addressable bus resource ranges are
> 	[0] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B]
> 	[1] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B]
> (II) OS-reported resource ranges:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
> 	[1] -1 0	0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
> 	[2] -1 0	0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
> 	[3] -1 0	0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
> 	[4] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
> 	[5] -1 0	0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B]
> 	[6] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B]
> (II) Active PCI resource ranges:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xd8000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x8000000) MX[B]E
> 	[1] -1 0	0xd0000000 - 0xd3ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
> 	[2] -1 0	0xd5000000 - 0xd57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B)
> 	[3] -1 0	0xd4000000 - 0xd4003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B)
> 	[4] -1 0	0xd7000000 - 0xd7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
> 	[5] -1 0	0x0000ec00 - 0x0000ecff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[6] -1 0	0x0000e400 - 0x0000e4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[7] -1 0	0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[8] -1 0	0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[9] -1 0	0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[10] -1 0	0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[11] -1 0	0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) Active PCI resource ranges after removing overlaps:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xd8000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x8000000) MX[B]E
> 	[1] -1 0	0xd0000000 - 0xd3ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
> 	[2] -1 0	0xd5000000 - 0xd57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B)
> 	[3] -1 0	0xd4000000 - 0xd4003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B)
> 	[4] -1 0	0xd7000000 - 0xd7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
> 	[5] -1 0	0x0000ec00 - 0x0000ecff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[6] -1 0	0x0000e400 - 0x0000e4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[7] -1 0	0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[8] -1 0	0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[9] -1 0	0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[10] -1 0	0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[11] -1 0	0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) OS-reported resource ranges after removing overlaps with PCI:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
> 	[1] -1 0	0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
> 	[2] -1 0	0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
> 	[3] -1 0	0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
> 	[4] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
> 	[5] -1 0	0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B]
> 	[6] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B]
> (II) All system resource ranges:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
> 	[1] -1 0	0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
> 	[2] -1 0	0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
> 	[3] -1 0	0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
> 	[4] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
> 	[5] -1 0	0xd8000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x8000000) MX[B]E
> 	[6] -1 0	0xd0000000 - 0xd3ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
> 	[7] -1 0	0xd5000000 - 0xd57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B)
> 	[8] -1 0	0xd4000000 - 0xd4003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B)
> 	[9] -1 0	0xd7000000 - 0xd7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
> 	[10] -1 0	0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B]
> 	[11] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B]
> 	[12] -1 0	0x0000ec00 - 0x0000ecff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[13] -1 0	0x0000e400 - 0x0000e4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[14] -1 0	0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[15] -1 0	0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[16] -1 0	0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[17] -1 0	0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[18] -1 0	0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) LoadModule: "GLcore"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a
> (II) Module GLcore: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) LoadModule: "bitmap"
> (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a
> (II) Loading font Bitmap
> (II) LoadModule: "dbe"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdbe.a
> (II) Module dbe: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER
> (II) LoadModule: "ddc"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libddc.a
> (II) Module ddc: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (II) LoadModule: "dri"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdri.a
> (II) Module dri: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading sub module "drm"
> (II) LoadModule: "drm"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libdrm.a
> (II) Module drm: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-DRI
> (II) LoadModule: "extmod"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libextmod.a
> (II) Module extmod: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1

Did you install the dri libraries? Its looking loading the graphic
acceleration here. Shouldn't be the problem for normal but may take some
fiddling to work properly later on o get acceleration going.

> (II) Loading extension SHAPE
> (II) Loading extension MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD
> (II) Loading extension BIG-REQUESTS
> (II) Loading extension SYNC
> (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER
> (II) Loading extension XC-MISC
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-Misc
> (II) Loading extension XFree86-DGA
> (II) Loading extension DPMS
> (II) Loading extension FontCache
> (II) Loading extension TOG-CUP
> (II) Loading extension Extended-Visual-Information
> (II) Loading extension XVideo
> (II) Loading extension XVideo-MotionCompensation
> (II) LoadModule: "freetype"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libfreetype.a
> (II) Module freetype: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.1.9
> 	Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2
> (II) Loading font FreeType
> (II) LoadModule: "glx"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.a
> (II) Module glx: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading sub module "GLcore"
> (II) LoadModule: "GLcore"
> (II) Reloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libGLcore.a
> (II) Loading extension GLX
> (II) LoadModule: "int10"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libint10.a
> (II) Module int10: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (II) LoadModule: "pex5"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libpex5.a
> (II) Module pex5: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension X3D-PEX
> (II) LoadModule: "record"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/librecord.a
> (II) Module record: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.13.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension RECORD
> (II) LoadModule: "speedo"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libspeedo.a
> (II) Module speedo: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2
> (II) Loading font Speedo
> (II) LoadModule: "type1"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libtype1.a
> (II) Module type1: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.2
> (II) Loading font Type1
> (II) Loading font CID
> (II) LoadModule: "vbe"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvbe.a
> (II) Module vbe: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (II) LoadModule: "xie"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libxie.a
> (II) Module xie: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 Server Extension
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1
> (II) Loading extension XIE
> (II) LoadModule: "mga"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/mga_drv.o
> (II) Module mga: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.1
> 	Module class: XFree86 Video Driver
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4

Its loading the mga module fine.

> (II) LoadModule: "mouse"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/mouse_drv.o
> (II) Module mouse: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 1.0.0
> 	Module class: XFree86 XInput Driver
> 	ABI class: XFree86 XInput driver, version 0.2
> (II) MGA: driver for Matrox chipsets: mga2064w, mga1064sg, mga2164w,
> 	mga2164w AGP, mgag100, mgag100 PCI, mgag200, mgag200 PCI, mgag400
> (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0
> (--) Assigning device section with no busID to primary device
> (--) Chipset mgag200 found

Recognizes the card.

> (II) resource ranges after xf86ClaimFixedResources() call:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
> 	[1] -1 0	0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
> 	[2] -1 0	0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
> 	[3] -1 0	0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
> 	[4] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
> 	[5] -1 0	0xd8000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x8000000) MX[B]E
> 	[6] -1 0	0xd0000000 - 0xd3ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
> 	[7] -1 0	0xd5000000 - 0xd57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B)
> 	[8] -1 0	0xd4000000 - 0xd4003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B)
> 	[9] -1 0	0xd7000000 - 0xd7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
> 	[10] -1 0	0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B]
> 	[11] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B]
> 	[12] -1 0	0x0000ec00 - 0x0000ecff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[13] -1 0	0x0000e400 - 0x0000e4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[14] -1 0	0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[15] -1 0	0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[16] -1 0	0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[17] -1 0	0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[18] -1 0	0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> (II) resource ranges after probing:
> 	[0] -1 0	0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B)
> 	[1] -1 0	0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B)
> 	[2] -1 0	0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B]
> 	[3] -1 0	0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B]
> 	[4] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B]
> 	[5] -1 0	0xd8000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x8000000) MX[B]E
> 	[6] -1 0	0xd0000000 - 0xd3ffffff (0x4000000) MX[B]E
> 	[7] -1 0	0xd5000000 - 0xd57fffff (0x800000) MX[B](B)
> 	[8] -1 0	0xd4000000 - 0xd4003fff (0x4000) MX[B](B)
> 	[9] -1 0	0xd7000000 - 0xd7ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B)
> 	[10] 0 0	0x000a0000 - 0x000affff (0x10000) MS[B]
> 	[11] 0 0	0x000b0000 - 0x000b7fff (0x8000) MS[B]
> 	[12] 0 0	0x000b8000 - 0x000bffff (0x8000) MS[B]
> 	[13] -1 0	0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B]
> 	[14] -1 0	0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B]
> 	[15] -1 0	0x0000ec00 - 0x0000ecff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[16] -1 0	0x0000e400 - 0x0000e4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[17] -1 0	0x0000e000 - 0x0000e0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[18] -1 0	0x0000dc00 - 0x0000dcff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[19] -1 0	0x0000d800 - 0x0000d8ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[20] -1 0	0x0000d400 - 0x0000d4ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[21] -1 0	0x0000d000 - 0x0000d0ff (0x100) IX[B]E
> 	[22] 0 0	0x000003b0 - 0x000003bb (0xc) IS[B]
> 	[23] 0 0	0x000003c0 - 0x000003df (0x20) IS[B]
> (II) Setting vga for screen 0.
> (II) Loading sub module "vgahw"
> (II) LoadModule: "vgahw"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a
> (II) Module vgahw: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 0.1.0
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (**) MGA(0): Depth 24, (--) framebuffer bpp 32
> (==) MGA(0): RGB weight 888
> (**) MGA(0): Option "UseFBDev" "true"

Might try to disable fbdev in the setup and see if it helps.

> (II) Loading sub module "mga_hal"
> (II) LoadModule: "mga_hal"
> (WW) Warning, couldn't open module mga_hal
> (II) UnloadModule: "mga_hal"
> (EE) MGA: Failed to load module "mga_hal" (module does not exist, 0)
> (II) MGA(0): Matrox HAL module not found - using builtin mode setup
> instead

This is saying that there was an error loading mag_hal so it is using
built in mode setup instead. It doesn't seem like its stopping here.
Found this information on mga had if it interests you:

        The MGA hal is a closed-source hardware access library from
        Matrox. XFree86 includes the ability to make a loadable module
        using this library to add features to XFree86's Matrox support.
        If the loadable module is present it enables TV Out and dualhead
        for G400 cards (non-G400 dualhead cards don't need it). If it
        isn't found, an error message is printed about it being missing
        but it's not a problem unless you need these features.

Seems to be a known error, but not the problem from the messages.

> (--) MGA(0): Chipset: "mgag200"
> (==) MGA(0): Using AGP 1x mode
> (**) MGA(0): Using framebuffer device
> (II) Loading sub module "fbdevhw"
> (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw"
> (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libfbdevhw.a
> (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="The XFree86 Project"
> 	compiled for 4.1.0.1, module version = 0.0.2
> 	ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.4
> (II) UnloadModule: "mga"
> (II) UnloadModule: "fbdevhw"
> (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libfbdevhw.a
> (II) UnloadModule: "vgahw"
> (II) Unloading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a
> (EE) Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration.
> 
> Fatal server error:
> no screens found
> 
> When reporting a problem related to a server crash, please send
> the full server output, not just the last messages.
> This can be found in the log file "/var/log/XFree86.0.log".
> Please report problems to submit@bugs.debian.org.
> 
> 
> --------- end of XFree86.0.log ----------
> 
> > > "	Warning couldn't open module mga_hal
> > > "	MGA: Failed to load module mga_hal (Module does not exist, 0)
> > >
> > 
> > Try using the generic vga driver as a start and see if that solves the
> > problem first. If that works it will be easier to activate the mga
> > driver next. Also try doing modprobe agpgart (assuming you have agp, don't
> > remember if accelerated pci also uses agpgart or pcigart, try both).
> > 
> 
> I did this using xf86config but XFree86.0.log suggests that X is still
> trying to load MGA
> 
> > > "	EE Screen(s) found, but none have a usable configuration.
> > >
> > 
> > Try reducing the resolution and refresh rate as a start to 1024x768 and
> > 75HZ as a maximum, maybe its having problems with recognizing your
> > monitor. Again if this works its easier to improve afterwords. IIRC
> > there is an simple and novice options for setting up the monitor
> > refresh rates which should let you choose something close as a start.
> > 
> 
> did this
> 
> > > "	Fatal Server error no screens found
> > >
> > > if I run xf86cfg, it goes to VGA mode and brings up the XWindows
> > > configuration modules, but the mouse doesn't work.
> > >
> > 
> > Could be that you mouse isn't configured properly. X will crash in such
> > a case and give errors that seem to indicate screen problems instead of
> > mouse problems. I ran into this several times and it was usually the
> > last place where people look.
> > 
> > What mouse do you have (brand and ps/2 or usb?). Post the generated
> > /etc/X11/XF86Config.
> > 
> 
> It is a basic Microsoft(TM) 2 button mouse attached to PS/2.
> 
> I have tried configuring as MS mouse and PS/2 mouse (I think it set to PS/2
> now).
> 
> /etc/X11/XF86Config follows.....
> 

>From the logs I need /etc/X11/XF86Config-4. From first look it doesn't
look like this file matches the logs. See if XF86Config-4 exists also.
The first thing I can thing of:

check that you have /dev/mouse, it should be a symbolic link to
/dev/psaux (do ls -l and see what the file name is). If it doesn't
exists either provide /dev/psaux as the mouse location for the setup
process or do as root

ln -s psaux /dev/mouse

Using ImPS/2 instead if PS/2 may also help but it won't change
behavior, just features.

This is my best bet for now.
I have to go now, so if it doesn't help I will look farther a bit later.

> # File generated by xf86config.
> 
> #
> # Copyright (c) 1999 by The XFree86 Project, Inc.
> #
> # Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a
> # copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"),
> # to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation
> # the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,
> # and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the
> # Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:
> # 
> # The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
> # all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
> # 
> # THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
> # IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
> # FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.  IN NO EVENT SHALL
> # THE XFREE86 PROJECT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY,
> # WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF
> # OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
> # SOFTWARE.
> # 
> # Except as contained in this notice, the name of the XFree86 Project shall
> # not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other
> # dealings in this Software without prior written authorization from the
> # XFree86 Project.
> #
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Refer to the XF86Config(4/5) man page for details about the format of 
> # this file.
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Module section -- this  section  is used to specify
> # which dynamically loadable modules to load.
> # **********************************************************************
> #
> Section "Module"
> 
> # This loads the DBE extension module.
> 
>     Load        "dbe"  	# Double buffer extension
> 
> # This loads the miscellaneous extensions module, and disables
> # initialisation of the XFree86-DGA extension within that module.
>     SubSection  "extmod"
>       Option    "omit xfree86-dga"   # don't initialise the DGA extension
>     EndSubSection
> 
> # This loads the Type1 and FreeType font modules
>     Load        "type1"
>     Load        "freetype"
> 
> # This loads the GLX module
> #    Load       "glx"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Files section.  This allows default font and rgb paths to be set
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> Section "Files"
> 
> # The location of the RGB database.  Note, this is the name of the
> # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db").  There is normally
> # no need to change the default.
> 
>     RgbPath	"/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb"
> 
> # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (which are concatenated together),
> # as well as specifying multiple comma-separated entries in one FontPath
> # command (or a combination of both methods)
> # 
> # If you don't have a floating point coprocessor and emacs, Mosaic or other
> # programs take long to start up, try moving the Type1 and Speedo directory
> # to the end of this list (or comment them out).
> # 
> 
> #    FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/local/"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/"
>     FontPath   "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/"
> 
> # The module search path.  The default path is shown here.
> 
> #    ModulePath "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Server flags section.
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> Section "ServerFlags"
> 
> # Uncomment this to cause a core dump at the spot where a signal is 
> # received.  This may leave the console in an unusable state, but may
> # provide a better stack trace in the core dump to aid in debugging
> 
> #    Option "NoTrapSignals"
> 
> # Uncomment this to disable the <Crtl><Alt><BS> server abort sequence
> # This allows clients to receive this key event.
> 
> #    Option "DontZap"
> 
> # Uncomment this to disable the <Crtl><Alt><KP_+>/<KP_-> mode switching
> # sequences.  This allows clients to receive these key events.
> 
> #    Option "Dont Zoom"
> 
> # Uncomment this to disable tuning with the xvidtune client. With
> # it the client can still run and fetch card and monitor attributes,
> # but it will not be allowed to change them. If it tries it will
> # receive a protocol error.
> 
> #    Option "DisableVidModeExtension"
> 
> # Uncomment this to enable the use of a non-local xvidtune client. 
> 
> #    Option "AllowNonLocalXvidtune"
> 
> # Uncomment this to disable dynamically modifying the input device
> # (mouse and keyboard) settings. 
> 
> #    Option "DisableModInDev"
> 
> # Uncomment this to enable the use of a non-local client to
> # change the keyboard or mouse settings (currently only xset).
> 
> #    Option "AllowNonLocalModInDev"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Input devices
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Core keyboard's InputDevice section
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> Section "InputDevice"
> 
>     Identifier	"Keyboard1"
>     Driver	"Keyboard"
> # For most OSs the protocol can be omitted (it defaults to "Standard").
> # When using XQUEUE (only for SVR3 and SVR4, but not Solaris),
> # uncomment the following line.
> 
> #    Option     "Protocol"      "Xqueue"
> 
>     Option "AutoRepeat" "500 30"
> 
> # Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1))
> #    Option	"Xleds"      "1 2 3"
> 
> #    Option "LeftAlt"     "Meta"
> #    Option "RightAlt"    "ModeShift"
> 
> # To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the
> # lines below (which are the defaults).  For example, for a non-U.S.
> # keyboard, you will probably want to use:
> #    Option "XkbModel"    "pc102"
> # If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use:
> #    Option "XkbModel"    "microsoft"
> #
> # Then to change the language, change the Layout setting.
> # For example, a german layout can be obtained with:
> #    Option "XkbLayout"   "de"
> # or:
> #    Option "XkbLayout"   "de"
> #    Option "XkbVariant"  "nodeadkeys"
> #
> # If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and
> # control keys, use:
> #    Option "XkbOptions"  "ctrl:swapcaps"
> 
> # These are the default XKB settings for XFree86
> #    Option "XkbRules"    "xfree86"
> #    Option "XkbModel"    "pc101"
> #    Option "XkbLayout"   "us"
> #    Option "XkbVariant"  ""
> #    Option "XkbOptions"  ""
> 
> #    Option "XkbDisable"
> 
>     Option "XkbRules"	"xfree86"
>     Option "XkbModel"	"pc104"
>     Option "XkbLayout"	"us"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Core Pointer's InputDevice section
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> Section "InputDevice"
> 
> # Identifier and driver
> 
>     Identifier	"Mouse1"
>     Driver	"mouse"
>     Option "Protocol"    "PS/2"
>     Option "Device"      "/dev/mouse"
> 
> # When using XQUEUE, comment out the above two lines, and uncomment
> # the following line.
> 
> #    Option "Protocol"	"Xqueue"
> 
> # Baudrate and SampleRate are only for some Logitech mice. In
> # almost every case these lines should be omitted.
> 
> #    Option "BaudRate"	"9600"
> #    Option "SampleRate"	"150"
> 
> # Emulate3Buttons is an option for 2-button Microsoft mice
> # Emulate3Timeout is the timeout in milliseconds (default is 50ms)
> 
> #    Option "Emulate3Buttons"
> #    Option "Emulate3Timeout"    "50"
> 
> # ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice
> 
> #    Option "ChordMiddle"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Other input device sections 
> # this is optional and is required only if you
> # are using extended input devices.  This is for example only.  Refer
> # to the XF86Config man page for a description of the options.
> # **********************************************************************
> #
> # Section "InputDevice" 
> #    Identifier  "Mouse2"
> #    Driver      "mouse"
> #    Option      "Protocol"      "MouseMan"
> #    Option      "Device"        "/dev/mouse2"
> # EndSection
> #
> # Section "InputDevice"
> #    Identifier "spaceball"
> #    Driver     "magellan"
> #    Option     "Device"        "/dev/cua0"
> # EndSection
> #
> # Section "InputDevice"
> #    Identifier "spaceball2"
> #    Driver     "spaceorb"
> #    Option     "Device"        "/dev/cua0"
> # EndSection
> #
> # Section "InputDevice"
> #    Identifier "touchscreen0"
> #    Driver     "microtouch"
> #    Option     "Device"        "/dev/ttyS0"
> #    Option     "MinX"          "1412"
> #    Option     "MaxX"          "15184"
> #    Option     "MinY"          "15372"
> #    Option     "MaxY"          "1230"
> #    Option     "ScreenNumber"  "0"
> #    Option     "ReportingMode" "Scaled"
> #    Option     "ButtonNumber"  "1"
> #    Option     "SendCoreEvents"
> # EndSection
> #
> # Section "InputDevice"
> #    Identifier "touchscreen1"
> #    Driver     "elo2300"
> #    Option     "Device"        "/dev/ttyS0"
> #    Option     "MinX"          "231"
> #    Option     "MaxX"          "3868"
> #    Option     "MinY"          "3858"
> #    Option     "MaxY"          "272"
> #    Option     "ScreenNumber"  "0"
> #    Option     "ReportingMode" "Scaled"
> #    Option     "ButtonThreshold"       "17"
> #    Option     "ButtonNumber"  "1"
> #    Option     "SendCoreEvents"
> # EndSection
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Monitor section
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> # Any number of monitor sections may be present
> 
> Section "Monitor"
> 
>     Identifier  "My Monitor"
> 
> # HorizSync is in kHz unless units are specified.
> # HorizSync may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a
> # comma separated list of ranges of values.
> # NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY.  REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S
> # USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS.
> 
>     HorizSync   31.5 - 82.0
> 
> #    HorizSync	30-64         # multisync
> #    HorizSync	31.5, 35.2    # multiple fixed sync frequencies
> #    HorizSync	15-25, 30-50  # multiple ranges of sync frequencies
> 
> # VertRefresh is in Hz unless units are specified.
> # VertRefresh may be a comma separated list of discrete values, or a
> # comma separated list of ranges of values.
> # NOTE: THE VALUES HERE ARE EXAMPLES ONLY.  REFER TO YOUR MONITOR'S
> # USER MANUAL FOR THE CORRECT NUMBERS.
> 
>     VertRefresh 40-150
> 
> EndSection
> 
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Graphics device section
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> # Any number of graphics device sections may be present
> 
> # Standard VGA Device:
> 
> Section "Device"
>     Identifier	"Standard VGA"
>     VendorName	"Unknown"
>     BoardName	"Unknown"
> 
> # The chipset line is optional in most cases.  It can be used to override
> # the driver's chipset detection, and should not normally be specified.
> 
> #    Chipset	"generic"
> 
> # The Driver line must be present.  When using run-time loadable driver
> # modules, this line instructs the server to load the specified driver
> # module.  Even when not using loadable driver modules, this line
> # indicates which driver should interpret the information in this section.
> 
>     Driver     "vga"
> # The BusID line is used to specify which of possibly multiple devices
> # this section is intended for.  When this line isn't present, a device
> # section can only match up with the primary video device.  For PCI
> # devices a line like the following could be used.  This line should not
> # normally be included unless there is more than one video device
> # intalled.
> 
> #    BusID      "PCI:0:10:0"
> 
> #    VideoRam	256
> 
> #    Clocks	25.2 28.3
> 
> EndSection
> 
> # Device configured by xf86config:
> 
> Section "Device"
>     Identifier  "Unsupported VGA compatible"
>     Driver      "vga"
> 	# unsupported card
>     #VideoRam    4096
>     # Insert Clocks lines here if appropriate
> EndSection
> 
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # Screen sections
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> # Any number of screen sections may be present.  Each describes
> # the configuration of a single screen.  A single specific screen section
> # may be specified from the X server command line with the "-screen"
> # option.
> Section "Screen"
>     Identifier  "Screen 1"
>     Device      "Unsupported VGA compatible"
>     Monitor     "My Monitor"
>     DefaultDepth 16
> 
>     Subsection "Display"
>         Depth       8
>         Modes       "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024"
>         ViewPort    0 0
>     EndSubsection
>     Subsection "Display"
>         Depth       16
>         Modes       "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024"
>         ViewPort    0 0
>     EndSubsection
>     Subsection "Display"
>         Depth       24
>         Modes       "640x480" "800x600" "1024x768" "1280x1024"
>         ViewPort    0 0
>     EndSubsection
> EndSection
> 
> # **********************************************************************
> # ServerLayout sections.
> # **********************************************************************
> 
> # Any number of ServerLayout sections may be present.  Each describes
> # the way multiple screens are organised.  A specific ServerLayout
> # section may be specified from the X server command line with the
> # "-layout" option.  In the absence of this, the first section is used.
> # When now ServerLayout section is present, the first Screen section
> # is used alone.
> 
> Section "ServerLayout"
> 
> # The Identifier line must be present
>     Identifier  "Simple Layout"
> 
> # Each Screen line specifies a Screen section name, and optionally
> # the relative position of other screens.  The four names after
> # primary screen name are the screens to the top, bottom, left and right
> # of the primary screen.  In this example, screen 2 is located to the
> # right of screen 1.
> 
>     Screen "Screen 1"
> 
> # Each InputDevice line specifies an InputDevice section name and
> # optionally some options to specify the way the device is to be
> # used.  Those options include "CorePointer", "CoreKeyboard" and
> # "SendCoreEvents".
> 
>     InputDevice "Mouse1" "CorePointer"
>     InputDevice "Keyboard1" "CoreKeyboard"
> 
> EndSection
> 
> 
> ------------ end of XF86Config ---------------
> 
> I hope all this means something to you. 
> 
> Many thanks for your assistance.
> 
> > > I run xf86config and re-enter the hardware specs (to the best of my
> > > ability), but this makes no difference.
> > >
> > > I am basic level user with unix (some years ago), and without gui feel
> > like
> > > I have been thrown in the deep-end in a tied sack. If I had XWindows I
> > could
> > > probably start swimming.
> > >
> > > David
> > > --------------------------------------
> > > David Moore
> > > dmoore@geomap.com.au
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > >  This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
> > >  at the Tel-Aviv University CC.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > --
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