On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:02:57PM +0100, Matthias Klose wrote: > On 14.11.2010 16:06, Roger Leigh wrote: >>>> While I understand the rationale for --no-copy-dt-needed-entries for >>>> preventing encapsulation violations via indirect linking, I don't agree >>>> with the use of --as-needed *at all*. If a library has been explicitly >>>> linked in, it shouldn't be removed. This is an issue for fixing in >>>> individual packages, not in the toolchain. >>>> >>>> I can understand on using it on a per-package basis, but not in the >>>> actual toolchain defaults. The compiler and linker *should not be >>>> second-guessing the user*. This can break perfectly legitimate code >>>> making use of ELF constructors and other features which won't be >>>> picked out just by looking at symbol usage. >>> >>> People have been claiming that constructors or init section are a >>> possible problem. I have yet to see an example where it breaks. >> >> It's not a very widely used feature. I'm sure it's trivial to make >> such a test case. Portable software tends not to make use of ELF- >> specific features like this, but that's not an excuse for breaking >> perfectly legitimate code. >> >> But whether or not there are real life examples, --as-needed is >> *fundamentally wrong*. It's deliberately *not doing what the user >> requested*, and to make that misfeature the system-wide default >> would be entirely inappropriate. If a package wishes to make use >> of such a feature after understanding the implications, then they >> are free to do so. But to make it the default--I don't think that's >> a technically sound decision. > > maybe, and fix it in N - ~100 packages? Or fix the ~100 packages? The > point of injection is for discussion. I would prefer having this set in > dpkg-buildflags, and then disabled by these ~100 packages. Note that > this is probably the same like modifying the N - ~100 packages, as almost > no package respects dpkg-buildflags yet. What's the actual problem --as-needed is trying to solve? The answer is mainly unwanted libraries being linked in as a result of using pkg-config (and various other -config variants), though there are other, lesser, culprits. The pkg-config .pc files for gtk, gnome and other libraries add in many libraries, most of which aren't typically needed. The solution: fix the .pc files! Using --as-needed is merely papering over the actual root problem. It "fixes" the symptoms, but it's not addressing the actual cause. The number of packages providing broken .pc files is not large, and the number breaking due to relying on this brokenness is likely just as small. Other libraries being linked unnecessarily can be removed on a per-package basis. lintian is warning about this, so most developers should be aware of the problem. Damaging our toolchain to work around buggy build scripts is wrong; we should just fix the scripts! Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `- GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail.
Description: Digital signature