Re: Peace is not off topic
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2003, Ted Parvu wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2003 at 05:10:29PM -0000, Jeff wrote:
> > Way off topic - please take the thread private or somewhere more
> > appropriate.
> > I subscribe to this list for Debian security announcements.
>
> Then subscribe to "debian-security-announce" instead of
> "debian-security".
>
> Which is defined as "Discussion about security issues, including
> cryptographic issues, that are of interest to all parts of the Debian
> community."
>
> You are sadly mistaken if you don't believe this thread relates to
> security issues in the Debian community.
Partially agreed. I've always thought that security had more than one
face. For a workhorse it is ok (but sad to see) to stick to only one face,
like buffer overflows but not for a security-oriented human (and when I
think 'human', I would also like to think 'renaissance').
On the other hand, giving notes like below, about your gov looking into
more and more aspects of citizen's life, do you really expect that a
paranoid will share something interesting with you on this list (or any
other electronic exchange). And I suspect that the more one knows, the
more paranoid one gets.
(To answer a question one could have wanted to ask, I am not very
much paranoid at the moment - I am only very curious).
> This thread relates to the security of the entire planet!
I don't think the planet gives a fsck, which sure is a pity.
> This list is read by net savvy, security minded, critical thinkers
> around the world. This venue is quite appropriate. If you don't like
> it hit the delete button or filter into your SPAM folder.
Partially agreed - I wouldn't risk filtering out anything that may become
interesting one day.
> I am very, very, concerned about what is happening in my country. It
> looks to me like the US is breaking into two main camps;
But that's nothing new at all. Call it capitalist colonialism. The same
was being done for example by France some 100 years ago when expedition
corps were plunging into some rioting island in the middle of the warm
ocean. This is the way we humans deal with each other - it's doing crimes
to get more bananas and inventing right excuses for it. If the history
turned the other way and China colonised the Europe, I wouldn't risk to
say that their "higher" culture would prevent them from reaping and
killing us Europeans.
Ok, I think that excuses are good to convince common people that their
crimes are fine and great. On the other hand, simply telling people the
truth and making them criminals in their own eyes is not good because it
is very difficult to direct a nation of criminals. As opposed to the
nation of good benevolent people (you only need to convince some of them
to commit a crime from time to time).
So, to stick with France - anybody saying that "there should be a
freedom given to those Africans or Asians" would be facing very mixed
reactions. From some intellectuals giving him strong "yes" to newspapers
prooving his madness. But if you simply left those far countries alone,
sooner or later someone would visit you to teach you their own form of
democracy (or whatever would they call it).
Now, Germany, France and Russia don't want to loose their market. Yea,
they sold - maybe even sell - weaponry, chemicals and tech to Iraq (ok,
Poland build quite a lot there too)... How you think Saddam got his
Mirages he was hiding away in bunkers during the GW1? They also know it
very well it will be US money that rebuilds a postwar Iraq, a kind of
Marshall plan, eh? So what do they do? Of course, call for more UN
inspectors.
That's it. I am human and I don't like it. But let's face facts: I'm
totally contrary to suicidal type and with no interesting alternatives I
have to get on with this. Besides, human pleasures are quite nice.
> Skim this speech to get an idea of what I am talking about.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/rumors/shul.asp
This soldier (or whoever he is) seems to really believe in his country.
I don't want to discuss the subject "with his knife in my throat". In
ancient Rome. Caligula slept with his sister and considered himself god.
If I were soldier, I wouldn't want to die for him.
He also wrote about Pearl Harbor personnel giving everything to their
country as needed. Well, I've heard that this tragedy might have been
evaded. That the US intelligence knew about the attack. What's more
interesting, I always wondered why Japan didn't take Hawai by surprise.
Just recently I heard they had such plan but because they couldn't get US
carriers they resigned. And the carriers - which were crucial for this
Pacific affair - had been called off (for "manoeuvres") and were heading
away to different locations while other ships were drowning at sea.
That's how I see this - if it is truth, than pity good soldiers are
used in such way.
The story seems to repeat somehow. I've heard that someone sold alot of
shares of wtc-based businesses before they have been terminated. BTW I
think much more (maybe even 10x more) people might have been killed if the
stupid ter*ists attacked 3 hours later in the middle of work hours, The
first estimation of victim number - ca. 20-50k persons - vere based on the
buildings capacity (as heard on my local national tv about 2 hrs after the
attack).
Have you ever thought about security in this way? And not this stupid
"x rights" exhibition? I mean, if you can make your everyday leaving out
and the probability of being killed by gov at that particular day is
.lt. 0.0001 than it is still quite nice. I think this value is good enough
to stay alive during most of your life, as long as you aint misbehave
(because your gov can kill you either on some random event, say, security
officer likes your wife, or when you start misbehaving). In US, you still
have nothing to be afraid of, afaik. Your gov could have been reading your
library records soon after the first library has been opened in the US and
the gov constituted itself. They can also read your emails (including this
one) whenever they get interested. Nothing unusual. If you really want
some privacy, than perhaps you should consider a move into some
semi-disintegrated state, where government is strong enough to maintain
its attributes while too busy being bribed to have any diabolic plans.
To balance your link with mine:
www.algonet.se/~malecki/Vietnam.zip
A nice read, especially the first half (I had not enough time for the
second one).
bye
T.
- --
** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. **
** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home **
** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... **
** **
** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **
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