[-private bcc'ed]
As well as this mail on -project, Sven's also written to both -kernel
and -powerpc:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2007/01/msg00012.html
http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2007/01/msg00042.html
On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 09:30:01AM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 02, 2007 at 05:47:36PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 05:38:19PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > > On Sat, Dec 30, 2006 at 12:44:46AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > > < skipped private comment from Anthony Towns where he asks me to be banned
> > > > from debian lists >
> > > I said i would, and i will do it. I am a man of word, contrary to others.
> > > But as there seem to be a technical and ethical problem in banning someone
> > > from the lists, i propose a self-imposed not access to the lists until end of
> > > february, with the lone exception of problems i am currently working on (like
> > > the infamous xserve/udev/d-i/initramfs bug), and the BTS.
> > < skipped hypocrit private comment from Anthony Towns where he denied me the
> > right to participate in the discussion about if i was to be baned or not >
> > < skipped comment from Anthony Towns, where he believes mediation is useless >
The context Sven summarises above was, in fact:
> On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 05:38:19PM +0100, Sven Luther wrote:
> > On Sat, Dec 30, 2006 at 12:44:46AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > Do you, in fact, accept the result of this mediation?
> > I said i would, and i will do it. I am a man of word, contrary to others.
> > But as there seem to be a technical and ethical problem in banning someone
> > from the lists, i propose a self-imposed not access to the lists until end of
> > february, with the lone exception of problems i am currently working on (like
> > the infamous xserve/udev/d-i/initramfs bug), and the BTS.
> Sven, in the three days since the post quoted above, you've made
> twenty-nine posts to -private, including nine posts in this particular
> subthread. While that isn't cause to doubt that you're fundamentally a
> man of your word, you aren't managing to keep it in this case.
> While that remains the case, I don't think further mediation or
> arbitration is likely to be useful.
The "result of the mediation" referred to was:
> The main problem so far is that Sven still brings the issue over and over:
> this does not help at all, and the only effect of this behaviour is growing
> the conflict.
>
> With this e-mail, I'm asking who is concerned to take this action in the
> interest of Sven, the d-i team and the whole Debian:
>
> * Ban for 2 months Sven Luther from all the debian-mailing lists.
> (I am not sure that it is also possible for debian-vote)
> If Sven bug-reports or IRC conversations in the next two months will
> still contain references to the revocation of his SVN access to the d-i
> repository or to this ongoing dispute, I'll ask for his permanent ban
> from Debian mailing-lists.
>
> To make it more clear: Sven, if you don't stop with those non-technical
> e-mails and messages the issue won't be solved. When I proposed myself as
> mediator, I knew that I couldn't make the magic happen, but at least I need
> some collaboration from you as well as from the d-i team. If somebody did
> not want to apply your patch, or if you do not like what somebody wrote
> about you, or if your opinion does not match the others' one, please ignore
> them. My hope is that a ban from debian mailing lists for two months could
> help you to understand the "weight" that your messages have in this
> context.
(quoted with permission)
I don't think it's productive to move this conversation from -private
to -project; but given it has been, it seems appropriate to give people
following this more than just Sven's side of the story.
> Anyway, i take this as announcement that i will now retire from debian until
> end of february, and not post on debian mailing lists until the end of
> february, with a few lone exceptions :
>
> 1) If someone bashes me on irc or on mailing lists, i will ask you as DPL to
> immediately apply the ban to him too, and if you fail to do so in a timely
> fashion, i will stop my self-imposed ban, and immediately ask for your
> revocation as DPL.
>
> 2) I will write a mail on a few chosen lists (like debian-powerpc) to
> announce my decision. If someone else than Fabio replies to these, i will
> ask you as DPL to extend the ban to them, and if you fail to do so in a
> timely fashion, i will stop my self-imposed ban, and immediately ask for
> your revocation as DPL.
Sven, the mediation was an attempt to help you and the d-i team work
together effectively in future. If you don't want to accept it, you
don't have to; but if you do, you cannot use it as a bargaining chip to
threaten other developers if they don't follow your demands.
> 3) I ask the permission to take Frans email public, so that everyone will
> see how i hold to my world and he does not.
As a developer, you're expected to respect the privacy of posts made to
the -private list; if you think a post should be made public, you need
to ask the author for permission, not anyone else. You haven't done that
for my mail above; I hope that is a one off aberration and not something
you'll repeat.
Cheers,
aj
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