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ckermit: license advice



Hello.

I'm in the process of adopting the ckermit package (currently in
non-free). I've been talking to upstream (Frank da Cruz from the kermit
project at columbia university), and we both would like to see ckermit
in main. He is prepared to consider changes to the license.

The license was modified in 2000 to make it more free, but sadly not
DFSG-free.

The license is at

ftp://ftp.kermit.columbia.edu/kermit/f/COPYING.TXT

and at the end of this message.

The most obvious problem is the requirement not to modify source without
permission of the kermit project.

Their reasons for this are to keep a consistent code base (They
provide free phone/email support funded by kermit license revenue,
which also makes them cautious about changing the license) and to
avoid modified versions with bad things in them trashing their
reputation.

I suggested changing it to something along the lines of "cannot
distribute modified source unless you get permission OR add prominent
disclaimer it is not official kermit and nothing to do with columbia
university" (and maybe make them change the name).

Would that be acceptable in terms of the DFSG?

The crucial paragraph is Clause A:

> Conditions for REDISTRIBUTION are as follows:
> 
> (A) The C-Kermit software, in source and/or binary form, may be
>     included WITHOUT EXPLICIT LICENSE in distributions of OPERATING
>     SYSTEMS that have OSI (Open Source Initiative, www.opensource.org)
>     approved licenses, even if non-Open-Source applications (but not
>     operating systems) are included in the same distribution.  Such
>     distributions include, but are not limited to, CD-ROM, FTP site,
>     Web site, or preinstalled software on a new GENERAL-PURPOSE
>     computer, as long as the primary character of the distribution is
>     an Open Source operating system with accompanying utilities.  The
>     C-Kermit source code may not be changed without the consent of the
>     Kermit Project, which will not be unreasonably withheld (this is
>     simply a matter of keeping a consistent and supportable code base).

Another possible problem is the reference to Open Source Initiative
approved licenses. Together with the line in the introduction/preamble:

> The intention is to allow C-Kermit to be distributed with "free"
> operating systems such as GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, The Hurd,
> etc, ...

I would think that amply covers debian, but IANAL.

Are there any other problems with the license?

Thanks,

Ian.

-------------------- License follows --------------------

THE C-KERMIT 7.0 AND 8.0 LICENSE

  Last update: Thu Feb  8 17:41:07 2002

This is the new C-Kermit 7.0 and 8.0 license.  The intention is to allow
C-Kermit to be distributed with "free" operating systems such as GNU/Linux,
FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, The Hurd, etc, even when the distributions
themselves (such as Red Hat or Caldera) might be sold and/or might include
applications that are not free, and yet still require a license to include
C-Kermit in or with "non-free" products such as commercial OS's, commercial
software packages, embedded systems, and hardware (other than general-purpose
computers preloaded with "free" operating systems), since these licenses
furnish a large portion of the Kermit Project's funding.

There have been some questions about the provision in Clause (A) that:

                                                                  The
    C-Kermit source code may not be changed without the consent of the
    Kermit Project, which will not be unreasonably withheld (this is
    simply a matter of keeping a consistent and supportable code base).

The intention of this clause is primarily to make sure that anybody who
makes modifications sends them back to us, since we are the ones have to
support C-Kermit, and so we can carry them through to future releases (so
you don't have to make the same changes again and again).

Secondarily it is to protect Columbia University in the unlikely event of
modifications made with deliberate intent to offend or cause damage.

Any redistributor of C-Kermit under Clause (A) below should rest assured
there is no intention of preventing them from constructing a distribution in
the appropriate format (RPM or whatever) for their product or from issuing
any patches required for their products; we simply want to be informed so we
can maintain a consistent code base and a solid, supportable software
package.  We are happy to work with any redistributor an any issues that
concern them.  If you have questions, send them to kermit@columbia.edu.

Note: All changes to this file since 1 January 2000 (the C-Kermit 7.0
release date) are above; the license itself has not changed, except to
update the most recent copyright date.

(Begin)

Copyright (C) 1985, 2002,
  The Trustees of Columbia University in the City of New York.
  All rights reserved.

PERMISSIONS:

The C-Kermit software may be obtained directly from the Kermit Project at
Columbia University (or from any source explicitly licensed by the Kermit
Project or implicitly licensed by Clause (A) below) by any individual for
his or her OWN USE, and by any company or other organization for its own
INTERNAL DISTRIBUTION and use, including installation on servers that are
accessed by customers or clients, WITHOUT EXPLICIT LICENSE.

Conditions for REDISTRIBUTION are as follows:

(A) The C-Kermit software, in source and/or binary form, may be
    included WITHOUT EXPLICIT LICENSE in distributions of OPERATING
    SYSTEMS that have OSI (Open Source Initiative, www.opensource.org)
    approved licenses, even if non-Open-Source applications (but not
    operating systems) are included in the same distribution.  Such
    distributions include, but are not limited to, CD-ROM, FTP site,
    Web site, or preinstalled software on a new GENERAL-PURPOSE
    computer, as long as the primary character of the distribution is
    an Open Source operating system with accompanying utilities.  The
    C-Kermit source code may not be changed without the consent of the
    Kermit Project, which will not be unreasonably withheld (this is
    simply a matter of keeping a consistent and supportable code base).

(B) Inclusion of C-Kermit software in whole or in part, in any form, in
    or with any product not covered by Clause (A), or its distribution
    by any commercial enterprise to its actual or potential customers
    or clients except as in Clause (A), requires a license from the
    Kermit Project, Columbia University; contact kermit@columbia.edu.

The name of Columbia University may not be used to endorse or promote
products derived from or including the C-Kermit software without specific
prior written permission.

DISCLAIMER:

  THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED AS IS, WITHOUT REPRESENTATION FROM THE
  TRUSTEES OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK AS TO ITS
  FITNESS FOR ANY PURPOSE, AND WITHOUT WARRANTY BY THE TRUSTEES OF
  COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK OF ANY KIND, EITHER
  EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED
  WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
  THE TRUSTEES OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK SHALL NOT
  BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL,
  OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WITH RESPECT TO ANY CLAIM ARISING OUT OF OR
  IN CONNECTION WITH THE USE OF THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF IT HAS BEEN OR IS
  HEREAFTER ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.  YOU SHALL
  INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS THE TRUSTEES OF COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY IN
  THE CITY OF NEW YORK, ITS EMPLOYEES AND AGENTS FROM AND AGAINST ANY
  AND ALL CLAIMS, DEMANDS, LOSS, DAMAGE OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING
  ATTORNEYS' FEES) ARISING OUT OF YOUR USE OF THIS SOFTWARE.

The above copyright notice, permissions notice, and disclaimer may not be
removed, altered, or obscured and shall be included in all copies of the
C-Kermit software.  The Trustees of Columbia University in the City of
New York reserve the right to revoke this permission if any of the terms
of use set forth above are breached.

(End)

-------------------- License ends --------------------






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