Re: PHPNuke license
[replying to two messages at once]
On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 12:20, Branden Robinson wrote:
> I'll note that the GNU GPL's 2c), for instance, does not mandate that
> the announcement of the copyright notice and warranty disclaimer be
> placed into files output or processed by the software, which is what
> PHPNuke is doing.
I think that PHPNuke actually is applying (2)(c) correctly. The output
original. It's clear that PHPNuke "reads commands interactively" in the
sense of (2)(c).
*I don't see a problem if the notice were moved to another part of the
site and HTML linked to.*
On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 15:04, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > I agree with your assesment.
> > However, I would like to play devil's advocate for a second:
> > A person could consider a Web application to be a program that
> > "reads commands interactively" in the same sense that a GUI app does.
> > In this sense, GPL 2c is binding upon us to leave that in place.
> > This is the argument made by the FSF staffer I cited before.
> It's a stretch. Given the GNU FDL and some rumblings about what might
> be in GNU GPL v3, it may be that the FSF is going to be in a mood to
> repudiate http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/bsd.html sometime soon. (I
> sincerely hope I'm wrong about that.)
> I for one, still find myself in strong sympathy with the arguments put
> forward in that article, and I think it is inconsistent to apply its
> reasoning solely to the old 4-clause BSD license.
Recall that this says that the 4-clause BSD license *is* free. I also
don't see a problem with the About Box interpretation of (2)(c), which
avoids the 4-clause BSD problem. Recall that the problem of huge lists
of authors, copyrights, etc, is only when there's limited space, such as
in a web site footer or an advertisement. If you open any program with
tons of 3-clause BSD licensed code (like OpenSSH), you'll find a README
with tons of copyright notices. This is no problem at all.
> Furthermore, a broad interpretation of 2c would be inconsistent with the
> way most FSF programs actually work. The stuff in GNU coreutils doesn't
> generally spew a copyright notice and warranty disclaimer to standard
> output or standard error when these programs are are run for their
> typical uses; otherwise normal shell sessions would be awash in legal
> notices and we'd need 100,000 lines of scrollback in our terminals just
> so we could get some work done.
(2)(c) merely states that they *could* have such a notice. Most of the
coreutils aren't interactive. But for emacs, I think the (2)(c) notice
is somewhere in the startup text.
> Which FSF staffer advocated this extremely broad interpretation of 2c?
> If this heresy is the new GNU orthodoxy we may have some problems.
That would be me -- and it's not orthodoxy, just my intepretation. I've
been wrong before. This paragraph is the only part of the message where
I'm speaking for the FSF. I don't think the FSF has any position on any
of this, and I'm not sure we want to.
> > Another issue raised here is that we could be dealing with a little
> > different set of circumstances if you consider the act of viewing a web page
> > as distributing parts of the source code to PHPNuke, possibly modified.
> > This is a whole quagmire and trying to figure out its implications is not a
> > quick exercise.
> Yes, I do not think it is ethical to slap your own copyright on someone
> else's work.
Nobody is suggesting that. Rather, the copyright notice applies to the
PHPNuke code involved. The *license* is a different matter, and one
I'll discuss below.
> If I write a novel and put it up on the web, and my
> publishing technology happens to be PHPNuke, the copyright holders of
> PHPNuke have no claim on my original work (they'd better not, or PHPNuke
> violates DFSG 9, "License Must Not Contaminate Other Software"), and
> nothing should appear to the viewer that would imply thus.
But PHPNuke's layout and functionality are integral parts of the
output. If you wrote a novel and happened to post it with PHPNuke, I'm
not sure what I think would be the *right* thing. In some sense, it
would be like using a tiny little library (like GNU Readline) in a huge
-Dave Turner Stalk Me: 617 441 0668
"On matters of style, swim with the current, on matters
of principle, stand like a rock." -Thomas Jefferson