On Sun, Aug 04, 2002 at 09:04:34PM -0400, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > > > In fact, it's true that with the G1.4 control center the user could
> > > > easily choose the WM he wanted to be launched, that (good) feature has
> > > > been removed, don't know why...
> > >
> > > Becuase most users shouldn't even know what a WM is. Most *don't* know
> > > what a WM is (assuming you are not talking about a UNIX-savvy user).
> > > Just as w/ KDE, where alternate WM's can be used, there should be but
> > > one single WM for GNOME that just does what it should. Metacity isn't
> > > yet up to par, but I believe once it is, Sawfish will be phased out, and
> > > Metacity will remain as the only good GNOME WM.
> >
> > Man that will suck, given the small but important list of features Havoc
> > _refuses_ to implement.
> >
> > Havoc is not writing a practical window manager, he's writing an
> > ideologically pure one. If I have to choose between Gnome and the ability
> > to use my desktop, I will choose a usable desktop. Given all of the hype
> > about how accessable Gnome2 supposedly is, it's amazing how many features
> > I _train other low vision users to use_ he simply doesn't like for some
> > reason or another and therefore will not have in Metacity.
>
> Ah, these I am unaware of... the only things I've heard him refuse to
> implement are the "weird" features like separate viewports/workspaces...
He won't do anything even resembling window matching. There are half a
dozen features related to workspace management which come from window
matching, and Havoc is convinced that this should not be done in order to
force people to rewrite misbehaving applications.
Yet, how do you tell Mozilla to always start zoomed?
For that matter, how do you tell it to start on Workspace 10?
Why does this matter? I have 41 windows open spanning 10 workspaces right
now. Most of them were placed automatically. Navigating through them all
would be a nightmare given that most of them take up at least half the
screen and several of them are full screen. Tabbed terminals have
improved this situation somewhat - I used to have even more when I was
really busy with lots of different things at approximately the same time.
> > It's quite clear that my needs don't matter to him, and based on the
> > reaction I get to requests for these features (many of which used to be in
> > G1D), I would gather not many other people outside of Sun do either.
>
> Sorry, outside of Sun?
Sun is doing most of the accessability work for Gnome. The rest of the
project seems to be for it, until someone asks them to add a feature for
the benefit of greater accessability. The Gnome project as a whole seems
to have concluded that the best thing they can do is have as few prefs to
fiddle with as possible. Ideally, things should work out of the box for
as many people as possible. I agree with that philosophy, but following
it strictly leaves people out in the cold. Try though I may, I can't seem
to make them understand this.
I have become utterly frustrated with trying at this point. Not enough
interested ears in the right places to do what's needed.
> > Just last night, when I commented about a problem with gnome-terminal and
> > epic, I was told that I should be using xchat rather than some terminal
> > based irc client. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see much real interest
> > in whether or not Gnome works with anything but Gnome, including former
> > Gnome1.4 users.
>
> Depends on who you talk to. One or two people can be asses, doesn't
> mean the whole project is against you. So far as using x-chat goes..
> that's one nasty, and not at all GNOME-based, IRC client. ~,^
>
> Gnome-terminal does indeed suck very badly, but there appears to be a
> new terminal widget in the works, which may fix your problems, once it's
> released. I know the current widget (zvt or whatever its called) gives
> me no end of head-aches...
It doesn't. In fact, until Xft2 is added to Debian, it removes my ability
to even use gnome-terminal. I depend on fonts Pango cannot use without
Xft2. Namely, jmk-neep.
I asked for the ability to open a tab in the current gnome-terminal window
from the command line, that's all. This would allow epic to use tabs like
xchat and other similar browsers do. I've been able to use MGT to get the
feature for now, but that's G1 and definitely deprecated in favor of the
built-in tab support in gnome-terminal2. Havoc says he didn't see how
this feature would be useful to anyone or how it could be implemented
anyway.
--
Joseph Carter <knghtbrd@bluecherry.net> The guy with a rocket launcher
<knghtbrd> If charging someone for violation of US crypto laws would get
you laughed out of court, just "investigate" them on hte charge
of TREASON!
<knghtbrd> Tea, anyone?
<Espy> I'd rather drown politicians instead of tea :)
<stu> espy: politicians have gills, duh
<Espy> weasels don't have gills
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