[Freedombox-discuss] Rouge Freedomboxes and government intervention
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
> On 11-06-22 at 04:23pm, Neophyte Representative wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
>> > On 11-06-22 at 02:28pm, Neophyte Representative wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:34 AM, Jonas Smedegaard - dr at jones.dk wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > We should continuously have all possible use cases in mind, but
>> >> > prioritize those easy to provide rather than those with most
>> >> > direct benefit for users involved in most obvious
>> >> > freedom-enabling activities.
>> >> >
>> >> > Both segments care, else they don't buy FreedomBox at all.
>> >> >
>> >> > Example: Karla is increasingly frustrated with her government, is
>> >> > politically active, and may start an uprising in 3 months.
>> >> > ?Joanna is supportive of political activism but is more into
>> >> > partying and chasing guys, not willing to get up on the
>> >> > barricades. ?Joanna and Karla both want a FreedomBox.
>> >> > ?FreedomBox-dating already exist in Debian testing, but
>> >> > FreedomBox-stealth is still so flaky it is not even packaged for
>> >> > Debian yet.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do we then...
>> >> >
>> >> > ?a) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 6 months with -dating only,
>> >> > ? ?and FreedomBox 2.0 in maybe 1 year with -stealth added,
>> >> > ? ?prioritizing all parts being reliable and maintainable.
>> >> > ?b) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 6 months with -dating and -stealth,
>> >> > ? ?prioritizing urgent features for urgent matters (even if flaky
>> >> > ? ?and perhaps even dangerous for Karla to use).
>> >> > ?c) release FreedomBox 1.0 in 1 month with -dating and -stealth,
>> >> > ? ?prioritizing urgent features for urgent matters (even if flaky
>> >> > ? ?and perhaps even dangerous for both Karla and Joanna to use).
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> You don't have any idea what quality or quantity of reliably
>> >> available developmental labor units you will have available to even
>> >> try to push the schedule around in this manner.
>> >
>> > Yes, I do have an idea: Get stuff packaged for Debian so that it can
>> > be qualified/quantified a.k.a. get some eyeballs to make all bugs
>> > shallow. Stuff in Debian unstable is sensible to consider
>> > "unstable", and stuff so thoroughly "starred at" that it has
>> > trickled down into Debian stable is sensible to consider as
>> > "stable".
>> >
>> >
>> >> The last thing I think you would want to do is put Karla in any
>> >> serious danger of over-estimating the utility of FreedomBox in
>> >> protecting her anonymity while facilitating her quest for
>> >> governmental improvement, regardless of Joanna's uses. ?Joanna can
>> >> probably be fully satisfied with reasonable use of today's spyware
>> >> infected commercial offerings. ?Karla, in the most dangerous case,
>> >> can't.
>> >
>> > In my opinion only option a) makes sense (among above three
>> > options).
>> >
>> > I agree that Joanna would be ok waiting a couple of years for a
>> > Facebook replacement, but she is supportive of political activism so
>> > given the option of FreedomBox 1.0 (a.k.a. "silly" edition without
>> > -stealth) she would favor that, because it could help Karla
>> > slightly: Karla would lack stealth (and a bunch of other features
>> > quite helpful for overthrowing a regime) but would at least not be
>> > sold out by Zuckerberg - while we reliably extended FreedomBox with
>> > more radical features.
>> >
>>
>> Hmmm, I'm beginning to understand where I'm really having trouble with
>> your plans.
>>
>> For a committed, deeply involved (willing to make the ultimate
>> sacrifice) political activist like Karla, anything that gives the
>> opposition a chance to find the activist represents too high a risk.
>> S/he must not be lulled into relying upon our product naively.
>>
>> It is, indeed, a legitimate, interim goal to reduce the reliance of
>> folks like Joanna upon products like the other FB. ?That does further
>> the goal of Freedom. ?Perhaps we should coin another name for that
>> project to avoid the high risk represented to the naive by the full
>> name of this FB.
>>
>> We've already had deaths of many naive folks in Libya who thought all
>> they needed was enthusiasm and numbers against modern weapons only
>> slightly countered by International intervention. ?The International
>> response in Libya in 2011 may be an improvement over the response in
>> Hungary in 1956, but I don't think we need to set up such a mismatch
>> in another arena. ?We need Freedom Fighters, not Dead Freedom
>> Fighters. ?Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr., and
>> Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela were all opposed to and by relatively
>> civilized governments. ?Libya and Syria indicate that may not always
>> be the case.
>
> So due to violent regimes killing Karlas, you suggest we do not label a
> box helping Joannas making a silverlining of the cloud as "FreedomBox"?
>
Yes.
I don't take The Ultimate Sacrifice lightly. I'd MUCH prefer we have
those folks alive to help make progress.
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