Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant Was: mount point gets "(deleted)" / unable to unmount
On 06/05/2013 09:15 PM, Bjoern Meier wrote:
Ah what? You are confusing something, my skill to do something has
nothing to do with that I have to do it.
Well, you said you are deploying Debian in a corporate environment
so I assume you are doing some heavy custom configuration anyways
and thus it shouldn't be a problem to change the default xsession
as well.
I really don't understand
this decision. Gnome3 was controverse discussed in many media, so
"Take it or make your move and change it?" It is that hard, to build a
dialog and ask for a desktop? You have the choice, but we already made
it for you".
There is no dialog to select the default desktop as only one default
desktop will fit onto the first disk of the offline installation medium
if I remember correctly.
I remenber, that I complain on this list about how few have the
intention to understand and maintain they own system. Now I understand
how got this so far. Debian seems to grow as a system that doesn't
make it necessary to decide or to understand. At least some want to
see debian as this. Meh.
Debian *is* a system that makes decision necessary. Just currently not
the way you would like to see it. No one says it won't change in the
future. Maybe we settle with Mate as the default desktop in the future,
who knows.
So, no FAI is needed on my site. Again: it is NOT my problem to solve
any problem or tasks of customization.
What? Really? It is not your problem to do your custom configuration?
Seriously, I have no idea what you are complaining about. If you use
the default installation without the efforts of a custom, corporate
configuration, it is not Debian's problem.
Using an automatic installation system like FAI is absolutely mandatory
in my opinion, no one wants to install >500 machines manually. When we
install new servers or desktops, we create a new host in our host
database, hook up the machine to the network and run a fully automatic
installation over the network. Everything else is just a waste of time
and resources.
I can't believe that anyone would ever not use an automated installation
system in such an environment.
My Problem is just: the more I have to customize, the more time I have
to spent, the more time I have to spent, the more expensive it is. So
yes, all unnecessary changes are annoying. Not to mention, that I know
that software changes over time.
If you do the customization properly, the time invested is worth the
results. We spent some time creating the custom configuration, but after
that the whole setup is working and can be installed with nearly zero
efforts of administration.
I am sorry, but you can't blame Debian if you are unwilling to customize
the configuration to fulfill your needs.
if you don't just cut my comments but read them, you'd have all your
questions already answered.
Again, Debian having chosen GNOME as the default desktop will never
be a problem in a corporate environment if you as the site administrator
create a configuration for your needs.
The decision to turn GNOME into that what it is now was made upstream,
not in Debian. Debian has just chosen to stay with GNOME as the default
desktop when performing the default installation as it has been like
for quite some time. And, again, changing the default desktop is a
no brainer:
Ok, you asking me If i filled a bug. I said, you have your answers
already and you just bring your no-brainer-gnome3-argument again? If
you don't want to read my Email spare your typing. If not: EOD.
As I said, I am deploying Debian in a large corporate environment
myself so I would understand your claims if they were justified, but,
alas they aren't. There is no need to be huffy and issue a "EOD" if
you are unwilling to invest some time yourself and customize the
configuration. Debian simply can't meet all needs with one standard
shipping configuration.
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
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