Re: Dissection of an Ubuntu PR message
On 1/12/06, Andrew Suffield <asuffield@debian.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 05:31:40PM -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > On 1/12/06, Andrew Suffield <asuffield@debian.org> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 03:41:16PM -0800, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jan 11, 2006 at 11:09:12PM +0000, Andrew Suffield wrote:
> > > > > Let's take this one apart and see what it is that pisses people off so
> > > > > much.
> > > >
> > > > I don't intend to participate in this type of email argument with you; I've
> > > > yet to see it pay off for anyone involved. However, I will be in London
> > > > later this month and would be willing to use that opportunity to civilly
> > > > discuss your concerns face-to-face.
> > >
> > > The intent here being "stop people from scrutinising Ubuntu in public;
> > > get it off the lists so that it's less visible". Not likely.
> >
> > Do you want visibility or solve current problems ?
>
> If I were interested in solving Ubuntu's problems then I would be
> working on Ubuntu. As people keep pointing out, Ubuntu's failure to
> cooperate effectively is *not* our problem - the only 'problem' that
> *we* have is that Ubuntu-worshippers keep showing up and
> proselytizing. An effective solution to this problem is to raise
> awareness to the point where people stop believing and start
> thinking. It appears to be working.
>
We can't decide how they need to "give us something MORE back" and
it's their problem? An effective solution is discuss between us and
keep our needs clear, since there are some Canonical employees that
are DDs too, they're in a position that they can participate in these
discussions (they're doing it right now).
You started (in a way) two threads about it and there's other about
launchpad, in my view we've the following status (with comments
below):
- No, Debian isn't going to embrace launchpad and ask for "rw" status
(Debian is listed there as read-only).[0]
- Yes, Ubuntu is contributing back but some DDs judge that it isn't
Canonical but some Canonical employees that are dedicated to Debian
too, so they help because they want;[1]
- Scott's url with patches isn't part of the "give something back"
approach that we want. We need to be well informed about patches, but
we don't know exactly how;
I removed more non-Canonical related initiatives like Ubuntu MOTUs
page about contributing to Debian.
[0] = I agree, DDs and contributors are free to use any tools they
want, so we're not going to force any DD or contributor go through
launchpad. I think it's consensus and valid for other things, like
alioth and related stuff;
[1] = If they're doing it in their workhours, it isn't only because they want.
--
Gustavo Franco
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