Re: Please stop the flamewar madeness.
On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 22:10:02 +0200, Christoph Haas <email@christoph-haas.de> said:
> On Sat, Sep 04, 2004 at 02:39:25PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> > So true. Some people here choose a 'discussion style' that is
>> > very insulting. Unless I know most people in private (which is
>> > completely impossible in this list) I try to choose a tone that
>> > doesn't offend anyone.
>>
>> Which is utterly impossible to do. Point in question: I find your
>> patronizing style utterly offensive.
> I didn't mean to patronize anyone.
>> > Just that some people seem to think they are so long in the
>> > project that they think they don't need to behave. Debian-devel
>> > is a very bad figurehead for the project.
>>
>> Would you care to name names, little one?
> Read the list. Be open minded. Try to read postings like you are new
> to the project. I have had hours of talks to new maintainers on IRC
> who felt driven away by some talks here. If people invest their
> spare-time to improve such an interesting project like Debian the
> least they can expect is a warmly welcome.
The nature of the list has changed very little since I joined
the project, really.
>> This style of taking pot shots at a large fgroup of people, but
>> hiding behind the shield of "I did not name names, so I can't
>> possibly be insulting" is highly irritating and insulting.
> Naming names hadn't improved anything IMHO. As I said I expect the
> flamers to not understand their problem. Just a little more respect
> and politeness would help the situation. If you don't believe that
> such people exist you are definitely on the dark side.
If you can get polite and respectful without listnazis and
style police that stifle the discussion, go right ahead and effect
the change (I doubt that it is practical, but far be it for me to
stand in the way of progress.
> In fact I directed my posting to the people who feel drowned by
> elitist behavior and let them know that they are not alone.
Elitism is not a bad thing, given wha5t the goals of the
project are. You can't create the best distribution of Linux there is
driven by mediocrity.
> There are people on the project I hardly know and who do very
> important parts of the project. On the other hand there are people
> (no names) who just talk and do nothing but have a fancy @debian.org
> address. If you knew me you'd know how much time I invest into the
> project.
You know, I think part of the problem is people who think of
Debian as a status game. Who the heck cares what other people think
of your stature, as long as you are getting to hack the OS into a
shape that is useful to you? All this concentration on Blah just
talks and only has a fancy address -- bleargh. Why is an email
address fancy? The person behind the email is far more important than
a handle to direct smtp traffic their way.
People who care about the email address are so childishly
jejune that their utterances ought to go straight to the bit bucket.
>> > I just doubt this thread will change anything. Some folks are so
>> > pigheaded that they don't even understand what we are talking
>> > about.
>>
>> Living up on a high horse and callig people who do may happen to to
>> understand whatthe hell you are talking about under all these
>> circumlocutions and indirections "pigheaded" is trolling, and
>> probably flaming.
> Hear, hear. :)
Glad you concur.
>> I find this vague rants where the ranter is too cowardly to
>> actually name the names they are ranting against highly
>> irritating. And yes, I do mean you, Mr. Haas.
> I knew you were primarily talking to me. And I doubt a lot that you
> would dare talk to me like that in person. I'd be disappointed if
> you did.
Hell, I talk on the list exactly the same as I would in
person. I am not so insecure that I need develop a secondary persona
in email. If you wish, I'll give you a personal demonstration at the
next conference we happen to go to.
> Another poor posting displaying useless hostility. Just that I'm far
> too long on the net to feel annoyed by it.
Yet another posting full of mindless drivel. And I am too
inured by many such to find it dismaying.
manoj
--
Your reasoning powers are good, and you are a fairly good planner.
Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@debian.org> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
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