Zac Hansen quickly and graciously replied, and gave me permission to post these mails to the list. I think it would be prudent for FS/OSS developers in general to weigh carefully the costs and benefits involved in doing business with an organization that is so readily antagonistic to its own potential clients. See the MIME attachment. -- G. Branden Robinson | Build a fire for a man, and he'll Debian GNU/Linux | be warm for a day. Set a man on branden@debian.org | fire, and he'll be warm for the http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
From xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com Mon Oct 7 00:09:43 2002 Return-Path: <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Delivered-To: branden+debian@deadbeast.net Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [65.125.64.135]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A284C5C067 for <branden+debian@deadbeast.net>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:09:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from chopper.slackworks.com [64.244.30.42] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 17yQ9H-0004sN-00; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:09:43 -0500 Received: from localhost (xaxxon@localhost) by chopper.slackworks.com (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9759g5v010494 for <branden@debian.org>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:09:42 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:09:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> To: Branden Robinson <branden@debian.org> Subject: Re: Regarding BitKeeper and its price list In-Reply-To: <[🔎] 20021007045426.GU13002@deadbeast.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210070101560.10394-100000@chopper.slackworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.3.3(snapshot 20020312) (chopper.slackworks.com) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=4.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08, SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1939 Lines: 54 > Hello Mr. Hansen, It's 'Zac' :) > > I'm writing you in regards to your posts in the "BitKeeper EULA Forbids > Working On Competition" article that recently appeared on Slashdot. > > I'm the author of the email in the second link that appeared in the > article, which apparently no one read (just as well -- spared me from > getting flamed, in all likelihood :) ). Going back to check what the link was, I did read it. But I wasn't going to flame you. I agree whole heartedly. This kind of stuff scares the crap out of me. And whether I believe that Mr. McVoy is a nice guy or not, that doesn't mean that he can't lose control of the company and suddenly the framework of large projects is ripped out from under them. Personally, I'm not so inclined to believe he's such a nice guy -- not only from this experience with him, but from previous email dealings as well. Though I'm thinking he's more RMS-ish than anything else. Not with the same ideals, but with a real plan that's a bit different than anyone has seen, and absolutely no charisma to back it up. > > May I request, on behalf of the Debian Project, a copy of the email you > got from Larry McVoy that threatened you with a copyright infringement > lawsuit if you continued to publish the price list that BitMover > furnished you with? You may request it, and I'll forward it to you in just a second. > > Could I also encourage you to submit this message to the following URL? > > http://www.chillingeffects.org/input.cgi You may, and I will. > > The Chilling Effects Clearinghouse is a project run by the Electronic > Frontier Foundation. > I've actually read it before, but had forgotten about it. I'll send this off, then forward you the interesting emails. --Zac xaxxon@slackworks.com P.S. I'm not going to send this to the Debian lists, but feel free to distribute this email and the ones I'm about to send to anyone you see fit. From xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com Mon Oct 7 00:11:03 2002 Return-Path: <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Delivered-To: branden+debian@deadbeast.net Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [65.125.64.135]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBC1D5C067 for <branden+debian@deadbeast.net>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:11:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from chopper.slackworks.com [64.244.30.42] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 17yQAX-0004uk-00; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:11:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (xaxxon@localhost) by chopper.slackworks.com (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g975B1dK010523 for <branden@debian.org>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:11:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:11:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> To: branden@debian.org Subject: our price list on your website (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210070110160.10514-100000@chopper.slackworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.3.3(snapshot 20020312) (chopper.slackworks.com) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 required=4.0 tests=SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO Content-Length: 623 Lines: 15 Here's the first email. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:50:31 -0700 From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com> To: xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com Subject: our price list on your website That was clearly marked as confidential not to be disclosed. See page 7 right above the price list. Posting it is a blatent violation of our copyright and causes our company material damage. If our lawyers find that link still working tomorrow morning at 8am, you'll be the first entity we have sued for copyright violation. Ask around, what you are doing is serious with serious legal exposure for you. From xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com Mon Oct 7 00:12:58 2002 Return-Path: <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Delivered-To: branden+debian@deadbeast.net Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [65.125.64.135]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C4445C067 for <branden+debian@deadbeast.net>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:12:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from chopper.slackworks.com [64.244.30.42] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 17yQCP-0005Bc-00; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:12:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (xaxxon@localhost) by chopper.slackworks.com (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g975Cv2J010551 for <branden@debian.org>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:12:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:12:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> To: branden@debian.org Subject: Re: our price list on your website (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210070111090.10514-100000@chopper.slackworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.3.3(snapshot 20020312) (chopper.slackworks.com) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=4.0 tests=SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_IS_LIST, USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO Content-Length: 1026 Lines: 26 this was after I sent him an email saying that I had looked through the document adn didn't see why I couldn't post it. (he was correct about it being right above the prices, but the mention of it being on page 7 in the previous email was incorrect. I only have a 3-page document.) >From here it degraded into calling names and such. Starting with him saying I couldn't read, then me replying with his inability to count (the page 7 thing) or spell "right *about* the prices" (should be 'above') Sigh.. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:03:56 -0700 From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com> To: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Subject: Re: our price list on your website On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:57:59AM -0400, Zac Hansen wrote: > see, I looked at the price list and didn't see anything saying I couldn't > post it. Then you can't read. See the section right about the prices. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm From xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com Mon Oct 7 00:13:20 2002 Return-Path: <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Delivered-To: branden+debian@deadbeast.net Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [65.125.64.135]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E42E65C067 for <branden+debian@deadbeast.net>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:13:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from chopper.slackworks.com [64.244.30.42] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 17yQCl-0005FF-00; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:13:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (xaxxon@localhost) by chopper.slackworks.com (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g975DJoC010559 for <branden@debian.org>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:13:19 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:13:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> To: branden@debian.org Subject: Re: our price list on your website (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210070113020.10514-100000@chopper.slackworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.3.3(snapshot 20020312) (chopper.slackworks.com) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO Content-Length: 585 Lines: 19 I posted this one to /. but here's the actual email ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:06:57 -0700 From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com> To: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Subject: Re: our price list on your website > But I suppose I'll take it down. And you're causing your company more > material damages in what you're doing than what I'm doing. Actually, every time you slashdot kiddies get your undies in a bundie our sales go up. Thanks. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm From xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com Mon Oct 7 00:14:19 2002 Return-Path: <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Delivered-To: branden+debian@deadbeast.net Received: from master.debian.org (master.debian.org [65.125.64.135]) by necrotic.deadbeast.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF10E5C067 for <branden+debian@deadbeast.net>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 00:14:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from chopper.slackworks.com [64.244.30.42] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 17yQDi-0005NZ-00; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:14:18 -0500 Received: from localhost (xaxxon@localhost) by chopper.slackworks.com (8.12.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g975EHYt010576 for <branden@debian.org>; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:14:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 01:14:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> To: branden@debian.org Subject: Re: our price list on your website (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210070113240.10514-100000@chopper.slackworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-RAVMilter-Version: 8.3.3(snapshot 20020312) (chopper.slackworks.com) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=4.0 tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_PINE version=2.42 X-Spam-Level: Status: RO Content-Length: 1027 Lines: 31 And here's the final email. Him still leaving the possibility of a lawsuit, even though I did exactly what he'd asked and removed the document within.. 5-10 minutes of posting the link. Well ahead of the 8am monday morning he'd requested. I think he's just being a jerk here. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:14:30 -0700 From: Larry McVoy <lm@bitmover.com> To: Zac Hansen <xaxxon@chopper.slackworks.com> Subject: Re: our price list on your website On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 12:13:03PM -0400, Zac Hansen wrote: > > > > Then you can't read. See the section right about the prices. > > > > Yes, apparently I can't read. I now see the restriction. > > But apparently you can't count. It's on page 2, not 7. You also can't > spell (it's 'above') > > Anyways, I took it down. Good. I'll consult with our lawyers about appropriate legal action for the damage done. Have a pleasant day. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitmover.com/lm
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