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Bug#746578: Reasons to keep systemd-sysv as the first alternative

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 17:14:01 -0700 Cameron Norman <camerontnorman@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Josh Triplett <josh@joshtriplett.org> wrote:
> > I'm pulling a quote from the bottom of Steve's mail to the top, to call
> > attention to a new and critical point that I didn't see raised anywhere
> > in the debian-devel discussion:
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:23:18 -0700 Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> wrote:
> >> If we decide that init *should* be automatically changed on upgrade, then
> >
> > (Which I'm assuming from your footnote [1] that you *are* in favor of?)
> >
> >> the ordering of the dependencies on libpam-systemd is immaterial except in
> >> the specific case that someone has upgraded to (or newly installed) jessie,
> >> selected an init system other than the default, and subsequently installed a
> >> desktop environment on a system that didn't initially have one.  In this
> >> case, installing the DE *definitely* should not override the user's
> >> explicit selection of init system.
> >
> > *This* is a point that I haven't seen raised in the entire previous
> > discussion on debian-devel, and I think it's a completely valid point.
> >
> > Personally, in this case, I'd argue that the desirable dependency (which
> > we can't easily express) would be "sysvinit-core ? systemd-shim :
> > systemd-sysv".
> To be more precise, it would be "!systemd-sysv ? systemd-shim :
> systemd-sysv" so that other alternate inits are treated equally.

No, that's not equivalent.  Having sysvinit-core installed, since it
only exists in jessie, indicates a system with sysvinit intentionally
and explicitly installed.

That said, as mentioned in my response to Steve's mail, approximating
the dependency with "systemd-shim | systemd-sysv" may suffice *if* it
doesn't break the new-install, upgrade, d-i, or debootstrap cases.

> One question: if `init` and `libpam-systemd` (with the inversed
> dependency) are installed simultaneously on a system with only
> sysvinit installed (i.e. Wheezy), apt would know that systemd-sysv is
> going to be installed (to satisfy init package's dependency) and would
> not install systemd-shim, correct?

That was one of the scenarios I mentioned in my response to Steve's
mail.  Someone should actually test that.

- Josh Triplett

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