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Bug#727708: multiple init systems - formal resolution proposal

On Sat, Feb 01, 2014 at 05:23:11PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 01, 2014 at 01:12:34PM -0800, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > In particular, in the case of GNOME, I don't see any package in the
> > archive yet for a fork of logind that depends on systemd-shim instead of
> > systemd, so there's no alternative available for GNOME to depend on.
> There is no fork of logind *required* today.

Only because the same cloud of uncertainty is blocking an update of
systemd past version 204, and even then only assuming you pull in logind
from the systemd package and use it with systemd-shim, which leads to
yet another lovely pile of controversy.

> This bug would be fixed, today, by a dependency on 'systemd-shim |
> systemd-sysv', which is what I asked for in the bug.

Which would break systems that have the systemd package installed and in
use via init=/bin/systemd.  (In the interests of keeping discussion in
one place rather than two, let's keep the discussion of solutions to
that particular bug in that bug, rather than here, please.)

> > There's little point to adding a virtual package with no providers yet,
> > because until the cloud of uncertainty leading to 727708 gets resolved,
> > a (direct or indirect) dependency on "systemd-sysv | empty-alternative"
> > seems unlikely to fly, and seems likely to lead to more rants against
> > the GNOME maintainers for depending on systemd.
> Of course, because that would be forcing a non-default init system (forcing
> installation of systemd-sysv before the decision has been taken on the
> default init system).  As things stand today, a dependency on systemd-shim |
> systemd-sysv would fix the bug for our users without forcing a change of
> init system on upgrade.

Leaving the aforementioned breakage aside, there's also the issue that
other parts of GNOME will need more than just what systemd-shim
currently provides, and having inconsistent dependencies in the GNOME
packages makes no sense.  Furthermore, having systemd-shim installed
will make upgrades to a post-727708 future version of Debian with
systemd installed that much more painful, since there's no
straightforward way for package dependencies to switch from
"systemd-shim" to "systemd|systemd-shim" correctly.

Seems preferable to see the outcome of 727708 first, the result of which
might well lead the GNOME packages to depend on "systemd-sysv |
systemd-shim" instead, or perhaps on "systemd-sysv |
org-freedesktop-login1" if that proves logistically easier.

- Josh Triplett

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