Rex Tsai wrote:
> Hi, Andrew
>
> Thanks for response to the public, after ignoring Jesse's request in
> email and me for face-to-face discussion in DBP last weekend. :-)
>
> A few quick feedback on SPI cooperation (SPI is not an issue, please)
>
> * Since DOT is a local user group, which is managed by a local team. I
> am afraid not everyone can express and understand English properly in
> the IRC meeting, since English is not our native language. So, I
> suggested DOT team set up a meeting in Chinese which we can clear most
> of issues and misunderstandings before we as a team talk to SPI.
>
> * Also, if we decide to join SPI as associated project, we need to
> elect a project liaison from the DOT team, who can give authoritative
> decisions.
>
> * Regarding to the
debian.org.tw and
debian.tw (the DOT team secured
>
debian.tw lately from an non-debian-related commercial company). As a
> Debian promoter group, the DOT team is happy to manage the domain name
> in the best interests of that community. However, so far as I can see,
> transfer to SPI does not solving the managing problems, but increase
> more paper works only. Also, there are other associations manage Debian
> domain name in Japan, Norway, Spain and France. So, transfer the domain
> name and assets to SPI is not the only solution.
>
> * Anyone can apply SPI's non-contributing membership, and associated
> project can be contributing membership. I don't see how official
> presence is meaningful expect Andrew can present Taiwan users for his
> own political interests.
>
>> Andrew Lee wrote:
>> To have a SPI affiliated
Debian.Org.TW means that Taiwan will have an
>> official presence from the perspective of SPI’s view. The presence is
>> meaningful because so far attending Debian held international
>> conferences have been individual participation instead of representing
>> Taiwan as a whole
>
> * I agreed we need a non-profit organization to entrust the DOT's
> domain name and assets, I also agreed the organization should not be
> managed by only a few people. This issue is what we are trying to fix,
> at the mean time we also are not comfortable on the current situation.
> The domain name is registered under not-so-familiarity organization, and
> Andrew keep ignoring team's request to transfer it to trusted team member.
>
> * The DOT team have set up a focus group on studying the legal
> framework of SPI and local laws and regulations. The focus group
> currently has three members - Jesse Sung, Mat Lee and Rex Tsai. The
> others are welcome to join us.
>
> * Regarding to the tax reduction benefit, SPI as a US registered 501(c)
> non-profit organization simply don't fulfill the local regulation. As
> the one of the organizators of biggest FLOSS conference COSCUP[2] in
> Taiwan, I can understand what sponsors need for local regulation. We
> need a local organization to managed the resources and provide tax
> reduction benefit. This is the goal of the focus group.
>
> * What we need to do is to understand what's the best way to work as
> partner with SPI, maybe like ffis e.V in Germany or Associazione
> Software Libero in Italy. However, this will take time to study and sort
> out legal and tax issues.
>
> * The last thing, Andrew Lee please don't play political game with us.
> (by ignoring other's important decisions and opinions, and quote out of
> context in email to the public) Please don't ignore the
> requests and resolution of the team, which is based on the result of
> poll. You will make us have not choice to move on without you.
>
> 1.
http://www.debian.org/trademark
> 2.
http://coscup.org/2009/en/
>
> Best Regards
> -Rex
>
> Andrew Lee wrote on 08/25/2009 05:39 PM:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I am glad to see more than 30 people who attended the Taiwan Debian
>> Meeting - Debian Birthday Party last weekend. We shared the special
>> Debian 5.0.2 Arch 'All' and had a lot of fun. It was a great meeting!!
>>
>> Please forward this message to these people. Someone must has their
>> contact information either email or phone, or even have both.
>>
>> Thanks for all your feedback about the SPI issue thus far generated in
>> that DOT members email thread. I am grateful to many people’s input
>> especial the one from Rex.
>>
>> I would like to propose an IRC meeting to discuss an issue which has
>> been actively in discussions for a while, namely, does Taiwanese Debian
>> community need to have a global presence through opening its Doman name
>> to SPI (Software in the Public Interest)?
>>
> ... cut ...
>> >From the above list, we can see that Debian is a registered trademark of
>> Software in the Public Interest, Inc. Therefore, it is very natural for
>> SPI to manage Debian related Domain Names. SPI has been in charge of
>> Debian official domain names around the world.
>>
>> To have a SPI affiliated
Debian.Org.TW means that Taiwan will have an
>> official presence from the perspective of SPI’s view. The presence is
>> meaningful because so far attending Debian held international
>> conferences have been individual participation instead of representing
>> Taiwan as a whole.
>>
>> Taiwan also has specific rules about domain name ownership. Basically,
>> the .ORG domain name can’t be owned by any individual except the
>> ownership was in effect before the passing of the domain law.
>>
>> In short, the benefits of joining the SPI stream are the followings:
>> 1. Link with Debian main project officially
>> 2. To have an formal presence at SPI
>> 3. Taiwan can have its official signature when attending Debain
>> held international conferences.
>> 4. To be eligible for tax reduction benefit when making donations to
>> SPI and server bandwidth to DOT( if the DOT is individually owned, it
>> will limited its growth because the Debian community in Taiwan will have
>> difficulty to ask for help which only available to non-profit organizations)
>> 5. And also for future Debian syncproxy in Asia
>> 6. Further Debian related events such as
>> DebCamp/mini-DebConf/DebConf in Taiwan. :)
>>
>> Joerg Jaspert already created an IRC channel called #spi-tw on
oftc.net
>> for this. For all of your convenience, we hasn't decided the date and
>> time yet.
>>
>> Please recommend a reasonable time and a date for this.
>>
>> Kindly regards,
>>
>> -Andrew
>>
>> Joerg Jaspert wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm sorry that my reply took this long, but DebConf didn't leave me much
>>> time to draft a proper reply, and then I was taking a weekend basically
>>> off.
>>>
>>> Now, as I don't know who of you knows me, let me shortly introduce
>>> myself. I am a Linux user since somewhere around 2000, a Debian
>>> Developer since 2002, SPI head admin since 2006 and a member of the SPI
>>> Board of Directors and SPIs Vice President since 2007.
>>>
>>>>> 6. Yesterday, he sent an email said SPI is willing to handle the domain
>>>>> name '
debian.org.tw' immediately. Which is totally different as what he
>>>>> told me, and we are surprised by this information. This message to me
>>>>> looks like no matter what the others vote, he will work with Debian
>>>>> folks by transfer the domain name and other resources to SPI.
>>> Lets take some heat out of the discussion: SPI will not act on anything
>>> if there is no clear consensus on what should be done.
>>>
>>>>>> Andrew, could you please provide a more detailed overview of what would
>>>>>> change if we go the way you proposed?
>>>>>> What would happen
>>>>>> * to the servers (hardware)?
>>>>>> * administration rights and access to the servers?
>>>>>> * to eventual policies or procedures for DOT members?
>>>>>> * on the legal side (who is going to set up a legal entity and how?)?
>>>>>> * to change on the community side?
>>>>>> * to the decision making process?
>>> To all of the above the answer is: Nothing and everything. :)
>>>
>>> It is not SPIs goal to take over administration of servers of member
>>> projects. We can do so if we get asked, but we prefer not to.
>>> Nor do we want to rule those projects, in whatever way. We also don't
>>> take decisions for our member projects. We may aid you to find a good
>>> decision if you ask, but we are SPI, not $PROJECT, we are not the people
>>> to decide for $PROJECT.
>>>
>>> The goal and usual working mode of SPI is a different one. We do support our
>>> member projects in the way they want and need support. And we provide a
>>> clean interface between SPI and the project over which our actions can
>>> be controlled/started. (In case of Debian that is the DPL, other projects
>>> nominate liaisons that interact with us).
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, I honestly have about *no* knowledge of laws in your country and
>>> also don't know the rules attached to .
org.tw domains and who might own
>>> them. There is certainly lots we have to discuss before we can decide if
>>> DOT wants to join SPI, or if there should be an own legal entity in your
>>> country doing something similar than SPI *or* if you simply go on like
>>> you did in the past.
>>> The only thing I want to advice against is having project owned assets
>>> assigned to an individual, like the
debian.org.tw currently is. After
>>> all this means a single person has to lose interest and go MIA, and you
>>> are in trouble. Even worse if that person is on the bad side of an
>>> accident...
>>>
>>>
>>> *Assuming* you would join SPI (and all the legal stuff is ok with it),
>>> SPI would *offer* to take over the .
debian.org.tw domain and manage it in
>>> behalf of DOT. Which could be fully managing it (like we do with
>>>
emdebian.org) or simply pointing the NS entries to machines DOT controls
>>> (like we do with
debian.org, where we own the Domain but Debian admins
>>> do the work).
>>>
>>> The same motto ("we do what the projects want, as long as it fits SPIs
>>> goals and is legal") holds true for other assets we manage for our
>>> projects. Which, besides Domain names and trademark holding, is handling
>>> money and giving legal advice.
>>>
>>> Now, as SPI is US-based (I'm german, but the organisation is officially
>>> placed in New York), this might not be something DOT needs. We
>>> definitely have to find this out.
>>>
>>>>> Actually, the most active service is the forum (
moto.debian.org.tw)
>>>>> and the wiki. I only care do we are still free to manage the server and
>>>>> develop any service.
>>> Assuming you would join SPI: You wouldn't give up anything you have
>>> now, *except* that you should not work against SPIs goals. So as long as
>>> you don't, like, start advocating non-free and closed systems, you would
>>> be all well.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>