Re: [Debconf-team] Regarding DebConf13 planned location
Answering this email because I have been named.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:39:51PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote:
> My general comment is, that I have not seen any new arguments in the last
> seven days or so. (I also spoke with Ana on Sunday for more than an hour, and
> while I learned several personal things, I didnt see any new global points.)
What I learned in Sunday is you wanted talking just to say you have talked
and there was nothing new. You didn't want to discuss the issues, you started
the discussion trying to find out what is my bigger problem with the intention
of trying to "calm down" that.
I'm very dissapointed how despite how much you're pushing for le camp and
saying everything is fine you ignore quite a lot important details
about the negotiation (such as the minimum forfait we pay).
Important things I have learn in the last day:
- We have very few WC and showers per building, something in the order of one
shower or WC for every 8-10 people. Since we don't have cleaning (le camp
is not a hotel), we need to do that cleaning ourselves or hire somebody to
do it. Cleaning toilets and shower is NOT optional, we're likely to hire
somebody and that should go in the budget.
- The showers are unisex and in some buildings they are not the typical shower
cabin where you shower and dress. They are just the shower with a curtain
and the dressing part is outside, in the commun area.
[...]
> And finally, the risk for this is with the dc13.ch association, _not_ with
> Debian. There is no Debian money at risk.
the dc13.ch association is also Debian and it is formed for Debian
contributors we shouldn't leave in their own if there is any problem.
[...]
> If we'd go to Interlaken, there would be less private hacking spaces.
>
> And as for personal privacy (as opposed to hacking privacy), Interlaken would
> only provide this for the rich, who can afford there own hotel room. For
> sponsored attendees Interlaken offers _less_ privacy. (Did you look at Balmers
> tent village? Balmers itself? I did...)
>
> Interlaken is really like Cowgate hostels were, or maybe worse.
>
> (And please keep in mind that the other "cheap" option the localteam managed
> to find where bunkers (as in nuclear shelters).)
>
Facts:
- Interlaken prices are similar to le camp: 21 CHF in le camp vs 25 CHF in
interlaken with breakfast (and rooms+bathroom cleaning and free
transportation ticket for the day)
- In both cases, people wanting something better have to pay. While in le camp
there aren't options nearby, in Interlaken you have several options in less
than 5m. Furthermore, all the quotes room in interlaken are for less than 10
people and you can get private suites with bathroom for a competive price in
the very same hostel. (just check in www.balmers.com)
- Interlaken hasn't been said to be *better* accommodation, just an
accommodation without some of the issues we have in le camp.
We don't need to go to Interlaken, what we need is people realizing we should
look at other venues. Interlaken is a good example that there is good
possibilities out there and thincking le camp is our only way is rushed.
> 3.) Complaints on the list vs approval / applaus elsewhere
>
> I cannot ignore the fact, that the recent complaints on the list where from
> people who can afford hotels, fearing of missing their luxury. (And such
> privacy as demanded is luxury IMO. Understandable luxury, but still.)
>
How can you be sure about this?
> OTOH I have heard quite a lot of people (in person) approving or applauding
> our plans to hold DebConf in the Le Camp setting. (Including people with
> children, btw.)
I don't understand the reference to children here unless you tell those people
are planning to get their children to le camp.
I also have heard quite a lot of people (in person) disgusted with le camp.
One final comment: plenty of people haven't spoken about their impression of
le camp because after they read the first complains being handwaved or
ignored, they thought there was not point..
Ana
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