Re: Candidate questions/musings
Anthony Towns <email@example.com> writes:
> > Frankly, the most exciting development in Debian I've seen lately
> > is Bruce Perens' UserLinux, [...]
> For example, as well as the many things Bruce came up with that
> worked out, he also proposed things like switching us to rpm, and
> dropping packages like "bitchx" to make the distribution more
> approachable to more people, or the Debian chicken, or the "deity"
> codename, or whatever else. Bruce was, effectively, hounded out of
> the project two or three times for his efforts.
He eventually left in something of a hissy fit, but aside from that,
yes people disagreed with him, and there were flamewars, but he did
get a lot of good stuff done, and even where one might disagree with
him, at least he took a stand for something he felt would improve the
project. That's different from "coordinating".
> > [...] Not that I'm not grateful [...], just... I want a coherent core +
> > aptable addons.
> So the problem with this is still the same as it's always been:
> "aptable addons" and the idea that you can split Debian into
> distinct components and work on the independently doesn't really
Ok, I'll take your word for it, let's not go off on a technical
discussion - that was an aside in any case.
> > PS Really, I mean no disrespect to Martin or any other past
> > leaders. The ones I've met have been very nice individuals.
> > Maybe too nice to kick some ass and make things happen?:-)
> When the people who do try to actively lead the project, or defend
> its principles in a visible way get beaten into the ground at every
> opportunity, are you really surprised that our recent leaders
> haven't really tried kicking asses, or that our tech ctte is fairly
> inactive and actively avoids resolving some issues, or that our
> policy team aims to only document existing practice rather than set
> new standards?
Can you cite some examples of people post-Bruce getting beaten into
the ground? My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I recall:
Ian J - constitution and not being very present
Wickhert A - nice guy, glory days of .com. Accomplished?
Ben C - don't remember much at all
Bdale - nice, competent guy who represented Debian at all kinds of
Martin - nice, competent guy who is doing a good job representing
Debian, and, from what I've seen, "coordinating".
Somewhere along the way, apt happened thanks originally to Jason
Gunthorpe, pools happened, the BTS evolved, the infrastructure
evolved... What else?
> Basically, as it stands people seem quite happy to say "we want more
> leadership" or "we want more chicks in debian" or "we want more
> transparency", or any number of other things, but by our actions at
> least, it seems more like what we really want is somewhere we can
> say whatever we think, and abuse anyone who doesn't think the same.
Hrm. I think there's some truth to that. Debian has a lower average
maturity level than other projects, because it's easier to get
involved. Sometimes that makes it a bit difficult... On the other
hand, I think it's a very, very positive aspect. Not many people can
just 'jump into' kernel development, but it doesn't take that much to
ramp up and do a .deb... it's a good stepping stone. In any event, I
still think a good leader could help foster the right sort of
atmosphere (Bruce wasn't perfect in that regard).
David N. Welton
Free Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/
Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/