----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2012 11:04:50 AM
Subject: Re: My network speed is only 10MB
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 18:50:48 -0600, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> On 2/4/2012 10:03 AM, Camaleón wrote:
(...)
>> You never know what kind of company is going to be installed next to
>> your garden, right? So one day you open the door and find a power plant
>> is your brand-new neighbor. At the time you (or a professional
>> contractor) installed the network facilities neither of you could guess
>> the new situation and the installation was not prepared to deal with
>> that.
>>
>> You can control what you know and prepare for unforeseen upcoming
>> circumstances is always a good strategy.
>
> You have a fundamental misunderstanding induced EMI/RFI. The source of
> the interference must be relatively close, physically, to the cable, in
> order for the cable to pick up sufficient noise to interfere with
> signals. A power plant, or even a Tesla coil, in the building next door
> will have zero effect on your cables' signal integrity.
That's simply not true. External interferences can be generated from
different sources, for instance, if your building is next to an
industrial zone. In addition, unshielded UTP cables are even affected by
extreme temperatures, oil and other fluids, dirt, UV radiation, blows,
vibrations, mechanical load, power engines, etc... that's why you won't
find this kind of cables on industrial environments nor in offices than
can be hit by such environmental situations.
>>> Wireless signals do not affect UTP ethernet cabling. Proximity to
>>> internal AC cabling, induction sources such as power distribution
>>> closets, AC motors, florescent lights, etc, is avoided during building
>>> construction or retrofit, because the cable plant is included in the
>>> architectural design, just like water pipes, sewer pipes, electrical
>>> conduit, etc.
>>
>> Not at all. This is something you can't decide. Only when you start
>> having problems you do figure something has changed and start looking
>> outside your own premises and search for the root of the problem.
>
> I've done structured cabling, professionally. I assure you it can be
> done the way I describe above, as that is the way it's done in the
> States every single day. Standards (or lack of following them) must be
> different in your locale.
Standards are done and set because there exists a necessity to cover
different user case and situations. I understand the reasons why people
(and not just in USA by elsewhere) reject the adoption of shielded S/FTP
cables for their office installation but none of the motives are related
to "technicalities" but "money". While I agree a home user with a network
conformed of two computers and one router is not going to benefit for a
shielded network cable, the same does not apply for an office install.
>>> In the US, in the case of environments such as manufacturing floors
>>> etc with horrific EMI levels, fiber is used instead of UTP CAT5/6.
>>> With EFI levels that high, even STP won't save you.
>>
>> Fiber is (still) not an option for the LAN.
>
> You facilities must be relatively small there in Spain. In the US
> closet stacks are often more than 100 meters from central switching so
> fiber is the only option for connecting the closets, regardless of
> whether copper or fiber is run from the closets to the cubicles/offices.
> This is the case in almost all multiple floor office buildings where
> the datacenter is most often on the ground floor or in the basement.
European countries tend to be small and so distances are lower, true. But
the main problem in Spain for FTTH is that the company who owns the pipes
and tubes it was owned by the state and it has become a de-facto monopoly
for the telecommunications market during many years. In brief, if you
want fiber you have not many real choices, there is no competency in this
regard and other companies are reluctant to invest in their own
infrastructure.
>> Here in Spain, the ISPs have just started to install FTTH for
>> residential and business users just a year or so ago, but it's not
>> widely implemented and it's only for Internet access. Cooper is the
>> king here for the LAN environment.
>
> I would guess you simply have a shortage of trained fiber installers in
> Spain. Every major city in the US has multiple electrical contractors
> with trained and certified IBEW and on-union fiber installers on staff.
Yup, there aren't many specialists in fiber, this is a "new" technology
for us that is starting to grow-up right now for the masses.
>> I disagree. Most of the UTP cables are "user-made", badly assembled,
>> poor quality and installed completely unstested while shielded cables
>> came certified from the manufacturer.
>
> Again, you obviously have a lack of qualified cable installers there,
> lack of testing equipment, or poor contracts. Installation contracts
> here dictate that each cable run is tested at the patch panel on both
> ends and a report generated for each run showing it meets specification.
> One such common tool in wide use in the US:
>
> http://www.flukenetworks.com/datacom-cabling/copper-testing/dtx-
cableanalyzer-series
>
> Tools costing less and many times more are used here. This is but one
> example.
I'm afraid you don't get the point. There are many companies which are
certified for installing LAN networks, buy the cable, make the
connectors, decide the layout, select the devices to install and finally
test it all with their "fluke" tools. Yes, there are. What happens is
that companies nor users want to pay for that services and make the
cables by themselves. UTP cables can be made by almost anyone with a
modular registered jack and a crimper, that's the problem.
>> Fiber is another different thing. We do also have it installed since
>> the last summer (4 FTTH lines, a 16-fibers cable) but working with the
>> fiber can be only done by certified installers and the required tools
>> are very expensive, not every company can afford that.
>
> Again, nearly every structured cable contractor here in the states does
> both copper and fiber. Fiber is mundane here. You refer to fiber as
> something used only to connect providers to a customer premise,
> something special, ethereal. Here fiber is used just as often, if not
> more often, inside buildings as it is between sites. This should not be
> surprising considering the US leads the world in optical fiber
> consumption.
Eight million of US home users connected to FTTH is nothing compared to
the ciphers of South Korea, Hong Kong, Japan or other European countries
if we read the numbers correctly and take into account the population of
every country.
>> The price of the fiber devices... Routers, NIC adapters, switches,
>> etc... they're still very costly (almost prohibitive here, but Spain is
>> 15 years ahead USA in these regards) and unless you have an
>> infrastructure capable of making use of such speeds you're wasting your
>> money.
>
> You mean "behind" the US, I think.
Yes :-)
(...)
> Thus I disagree with your "wasting money" comment. At the time the
> above cable plant was performed fiber had no speed advantage over CAT5.
> It did have other advantages, as I mentioned, and still does today. At
> least here in the US.
I agree there can be exceptions to the rule. But technology moves quickly
and now there are raising different technologies that can make you
reconsider the former installation at all (e.g., 10 or the upcoming 100
gigabit).
> Labor must be really cheap in Spain if the cost of fiber cable and
> transceiver hardware is the deciding cost factor.
Nowadays, I'd say any labor is sadly "inexistant" but that's another
issue :-(
> Given your assertion that installers there are not qualified and do
> shoddy cable plant work, I guess this makes sense.
No, I didn't say that. What I said is that given the easiness UTP cables
are, everybody can make you a LAN in a few hours which is not the case
when you want to deploy shielded cables or install fiber.
Greetings,
--
Camaleón
Are we in an "apples and oranges" debate here? Camaleon continues to refer to FTTH for her examples which by nature are controlled by the PTTs or Telecommunications providers, while Stan and others use intra-data center and intra-LAN examples which are the purview of the owner of the facility.
Larry
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