Re: What's wrong with debian?
I could not agree more. I love debian and I think its a great system,
however the whole release cycle thing is starting to become a issue.
Woody is just getting too old, even for servers. So what options do
you have ? Well you can use sarge, seems stable enough, however no
security. Thats a major issue in my mind.
I could use unstable, which I have found to be highly stable and I use
apt-listbugs with it which has not seen me deal with a breakage yet.
However the large number of updates that unstable gets (as it should)
starts to make this possess time consumming. So where does that leave
us? To me it starts to make debian far less useful. Which is very sad
as I think its the best distro I have ever used.
I understand that running a distro is very hard work, however I think
the debian people really need to look at their whole system.
Maybe there are some core issues which are causing the problem.
However from a end user point of view its annoying.
Hopefully its something that can be sorted out soon, before people
start using other distros.
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:50:50 +0100, Jan Lühr <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> I've been following debian for years - potato was the first release I actually
> used on productive machines.
> When potato was released, release periods of two years were discussed. And two
> years later woody was released.
> However, the release of woody was promised a few times, before it was actually
> And today?
> Following debian-announce just _one_ message was posted in 2004.
> In 2003 the list was a little bit alive. Some stuff about the server
> compromise and two, instead of one woody-re-releases.
> Sarge was announced and expected in mid 2004.
> The progress in sarge is measurebale, but that seems to be all.
> More than one year ago, a timeline for a sarge base-freeze was announced 
> and debian-installer should receive last minute fixes only in mid-march 2004
> and go into beta testing.
> Now we'll probably see d-i rc3 in march 2005.
> In March 2004, Sarge was expected in June 2004 , but we all know, the
> release didn't happen.
> In Aug 2004 Sarge was expected in Sep 2004, but we all know, the release
> didn't happen.
> But blaming d-i is quite unfair, because the security part (for instance(!))
> also had/have some difficulties.
> Thus for a while the release was planed refering to the status of the sec part
> And yet?
> Following the different announce-lists, for an user like me, the current
> release status updates look more or less like the ones one year before (Of
> course, d-i rc3 sounds better than beta3, but that's all).
> For other distros like ubuntu, netbsd, gentoo and com. distros like suse and
> red-hat release schedules are not a big problem) ...
> So, well, what's wrong with debian?
> What's preventing the sarge release? What blocks it for more than one year?
> On the one hand this question seems to be quite naive, and I don't wanna start
> an "Who do you want to blame today" campaign but on the other hand
> following different lists and forums, questions like "can I use Sarge instead
> of woody" or "is sarge ready for production use" are quite popular. Seeing to
> the participants eys, their concerns and arguments seem to justified in some
> way. And besides of the robustness of a well tested system, the age of woody
> makes it unuseable in some situations.
> The security support for woody is in no better shape. Sec-support for mozilla
> has been given up, and the all important, already promised kernel-updates
> have been missing for months . (Of course using sid's kernel source is
> quite a good work-around - but hey, it's a work-around) ...
> Dear reader,
> thanks for your patience while reading through my lines - and maybe for
> following my cross-references at the end of this mail.
> I'm using sarge on some less important production servers and the changes in
> sarge are sometimes painfull and cause some troubles.
> Perhaps you may explain to me: "What's wrong with debian?".
> (Hope to) Keep smiling
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/debian-announce-2004/threads.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/debian-announce-2003/threads.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2004/02/msg00009.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/02/msg00010.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2004/03/msg00026.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2004/09/msg00005.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2004/08/msg00003.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-annoIunce/2004/11/msg00003.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2004/03/msg00086.html
>  http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2005/01/msg00070.html
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