Re: Really, about udev, not init sytsems

[Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org>]

Hi,

First, I'm registered to the list. So please *do not* Cc: me.

On 11/25/2012 03:35 PM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 12:52:47PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
>> On 11/25/2012 12:15 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> They're constantly claiming, for example, that udev and systemd break
>>> a separate /usr partition which is simply not true.
>> I believe you've been reading too much L. Poettring.
> 
> And again the same idiotic and childish style of argumentation. It has
> nothing to do with Poettering. Please come up with real arguments
> instead of just saying systemd is broken and the author is an idiot.

I do just right after, giving you the real argument. This was just an
introduction, and I didn't expect that you would take it that aggressively.

On your side, please refrain from:
1/ quoting only the introduction sentence just right before the real
argument
2/ and then complain I have none, with your quoting style fooling the
readers of the thread.

If you want real arguments, then fight them rather than the decorative
sentences around them.

Besides this, I have *never* wrote that the authors of systemd are
idiots. *NEVER* Please don't put words into my mouth.

Instead, I wrote that upstream authors think others are idiots (it shows
in various threads). That's very different.

>> Yes, lots of
>> udev stuff are moving to /usr, and this is a fact. Yes, lots of
>> things are annoying in the merge for someone who wishes to use
>> udev alone, and not systemd. That is a fact as well.
> 
> There is tons of stuff that you would need to fix, not just udev
> stuff. See [1].

The point is, systemd and udev have recently been patched by upstream so
that things are going *even more* on the direction of having stuff
stored in /usr.

That is exactly this kind of things (and others, like merging systemd
and udev), going to the wrong direction, which pushed Gentoo people to fork.

I am *not* giving *my* opinion here, I'm not telling who's right or
wrong, just facts.

>> It would help the discussion if there was nobody always claiming
>> the opposite.
> 
> What? I'm not claiming the opposite, I am claiming facts.

See above ...

>> On 11/25/2012 12:15 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> If both Ubuntu and Gentoo would just go with the rest of the community
>>> and accept systemd
>> Yeah, right! Along the line with "why are these idiots so vocal". That is
>> in fact one of the main concern about udev/systemd people: they don't
>> care about others, refuse patches, and always claim others are stupid.
>> You shouldn't go through this dangerous path as well, IMO.
> 
> Sorry, but I wouldn't touch code with a ten-feet pole who from someone
> is so naive claiming that he knows more about writing an open source
> BIOS than the people at Coreboot who have been doing that since
> 1999. I started right out laughing when he claiming Coreboot is a
> Linux distribution and starting a x86 computer just involves setting
> up a few interrupt vectors.
> 
> I know several people in the Coreboot project personal and the
> claims that Richard makes in [2] are just ridiculous and show the same
> attitude he has towards working on udev.
> 
> Even Greg is ridiculing their work [3]. And he should know, he came up
> with udev in the first place and he is even a Gentoo developer. Don't
> you think he understands you a little more than anyone else, so he can
> assess when people do the right things with the code or not?

This is the kind of aggressive attitude which happened with systemd
upstream, claiming that everyone are idiots, while in fact they've been
pointing rightly at problems. You just made a new occurrence of it. :(

Thomas