Re: Bug#652275: Guided partitioning should not offer separate /usr, /var, and /tmp partitions; leave that to manual partitioning
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 09:11:22PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> On 12/16/2011 04:46 AM, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > In all of the recent discussions about separate /usr partitions, most
> > people seem to acknowledge them as unusual, special-purpose
> > configurations, even those who use them.
> I do *not* agree that there's such a consensus.
Hence why I said "most people" (because I didn't want to imply
unanimity), but there's a difference between "consensus" and "complete
lack of dissent". In any case, note that I specifically mentioned
separate /usr as a special-purpose configuration, not other separate
partitions. I don't want to argue here that no possible reason exists
for separate /usr (that seems like another argument entirely, and a
mostly orthogonal one); I simply suggested that it represents an
uncommon configuration. Do you really disagree with the statement
that separate /usr represents an uncommon configuration?
> On 12/16/2011 04:46 AM, Josh Triplett wrote:
> > Meanwhile, we don't want to steer any new users towards a setup with a
> > pile of different partitions, which makes their system more complex with
> > more potential failure modes.
> I hope that we are still the universal operating system,
> and that we don't want to force anyone to do anything.
> If I want to use many partitions, this is *my* call, and
> not everyone's business. Please don't try to force your
> view on partitioning to anyone.
Nobody stops you from using as many partitions as you like. I've
suggested a change to the guided partitioner, which exists to make the
most common partition configurations easy, and to steer new Debian users
in the direction of configurations which will work well for them and not
give them too much trouble.
A configuration with everything in one partition needs no extra
configuration; anyone who wants such a configuration will like what the
guided partitioner comes up with. A configuration with five separate
partitions seems almost impossible to provide sensible proportions for
that work for everyone without editing. And getting the proportions
wrong means people have to deal with strange and annoying cases like
/var filling up when /home has tons of room, or / filling up when /usr
has tons of room.
> > In the most recent thread, I noticed that someone mentioned they
> > primarily chose a setup with a separate /usr partition because the
> > installer offered such a setup as one of the standard guided
> > partitioning options.
> > Please consider removing the option in the guided partitioner for
> > separate /usr, /var, and /tmp partitions; that would leave only the "All
> > files in one partition" and "Separate /home partition" setups, both of
> > which potentially make sense for users of the guided partitioner.
> Please don't remove the above option, I like it, and I
> don't see why it needs to be removed just because
> you Josh (and maybe others) don't like/use it.
That line of reasoning would never let Debian remove *anything*, ever.
Sometimes it makes sense to optimize for the common and recommended
case, as long as the uncommon case remains *possible*, which it does
here. (And sometimes it even makes sense to optimize for the common and
recommended case by making the uncommon case impossible, but note that I
didn't suggest that in this case.)
> You feel like a separate partition for /home is useful.
Actually, I don't, but I didn't advocate that today. :)
> Good for you, and your desktop. But when it comes
> to servers, the /home separate partition is useless,
> and having a separate /var makes things faster.
Exactly my point, then. The guided partitioning option I mentioned
makes /home, /usr, /var, and /tmp all separate partitions. You just
said you don't want a separate /home, and you do want a separate /var.
Thus, you have custom requirements that don't fit the guided option, and
you'd need to use the manual partitioner instead. I argue that the same
holds true for almost anyone who might want something similar to that
guided option: they don't actually want what the guided option provides.
> Also, having a separate /tmp avoids that the rootfs
> gets full, and I consider it quite important especially
> on servers. I would recommend using it for absolutely
> *every* setup (desktop or servers) as a security measure,
> especially considering any application can fill up the
> temp space.
Note that newly installed Debian systems have /tmp on tmpfs by default.
Also, it really doesn't matter for single-user systems, only for
multi-user systems with untrusted users.
> > Anyone desiring a setup with more separate partitions should have no
> > trouble using the manual partitioner to create whatever custom
> > configuration they desire.
> And we have even less trouble using the automated option,
> also it's a way faster than doing it manually. Please don't
> remove it.
> Again, the way *I* and *others* use my/their computers
> is their choice. Please do not remove this choice from
Distributions *exist* to make choices for you, most of which you don't
care about. From the configure --enable-foo options of every random
package to the default set of installed packages, Debian makes it so you
don't have to answer 69105 questions before getting any work done.
Linux is not about choice.
Keep in mind that the installer used to ask several times as many
questions as it does now. Debian has managed to improve it drastically,
and in doing so removed some choices that I'd bet a non-zero number of
people in the universe cared about. As a net result, the installer now
proves simpler and easier to deal with for everyone.
- Josh Triplett