Re: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64
On Thu, Jul 15, 2004 at 11:57:46AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
> > I agree with you. You have the right to do your job however you see fit, as
> > long as you are *doing your job*. If you're not doing your job, and your
> > excuse is that as a volunteer, nobody can force you to do anything, then you
> > have an attitude problem.
>
> Oh, OK. So you're saying there are people on key positions in the
> project who aren't doing anything, they're just sitting there,
> preventing others from stepping in and actually doing the work?
I'm not saying that. Other people are saying that (or at least, something
resembling that). I'm currently addressing the statement that volunteers
'can't be forced to do anything'.
> > I don't see how passive-aggressive ignoring of people serves the goals of the
> > project. Debianers who occupy important roles and are using this as a
> > tactic to avoid or put off work,
>
> Do you have prove that this is happening?
>
> If so, please name it. If not, please shut up.
It seems to be the reason this thread exists. And I take exception to
being told to 'shut up'. I have as much of a right to state my opinions on
this list as you do.
> > or simply because they don't like someone should be removed from their
> > positions.
>
> I have never seen any volunteer in the project not do something simply
> because they didn't like someone else. I did see something that came
> close (the rejection of Goswin von Brederlow by the DAM), but I decided
> long ago that James had his reasons there, and don't suspect malicious
> intent (even if I do not agree).
>
> Do you have any counter example where someone did indeed not do
> something simply because they didn't like some person? If so, please
> name it. If not, please shut up.
I am arguing that, if such behavior exists, we need to correct it.
> > Likewise, Debianers who constantly participate in large flamewars
> > (like this one, for example), while at the same time complaining about
> > their lack of time should be similiary scrutinized.
>
> Well, you see, it might be a bad idea to blatantly ignore the kind of
> flamewars where people in key positions are accused of not
> communicating; for doing that might make you the subject of the next
> flamewar.
On the other hand, it might be more productive and mature to ignore the tone
of the accusations and actually address the issues that have been raised.
> > > I don't give a shit if you pass a GR. I am still going to do
> > > what I signed up to do the best way I can do it.
> >
> > I'm not trying to pass a GR, Manoj. Just trying to change the attitudes that
> > are destroying the project.
>
> We have a saying in dutch; it goes like "Better the world, and start
> with yourself".
I believe that I conduct my own activities within Debian with the same
attitude that I am expecting from others. If you have specific information
that refutes this assertion, please share it.
> Your unnamed accusations and general unfounded statements have a
> striking similarity to the statements and slogans made by a particular
> Flemish political party, called the "Vlaams Blok". That in itself would
> be a good thing, if not for the fact that the Vlaams Blok is an
> extremist right-wing racist political party, which, because of the style
> of their slogans and statements, similarly unfounded, is deemed
> non-democratically by all other, left- and right-wing, political parties
> in Belgium.
Uh, ok. Does the word 'Godwin' mean anything to you?
> If you're going to make accusations like this, be specific, so that
> other people can verify what you're saying. If you don't do that, your
> accusations hold no ground and should not be spoken.
I guess I should state again that I'm not making any accusations. I am
trying to change the perception within Debian of what we should expect from
our project's leaders. If you don't agree with my posts, or don't wish to
see them, then please filter away.
--Adam
--
Adam McKenna <adam@debian.org> <adam@flounder.net>
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