Re: Future of X packages in Debian
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Daniel Stone wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 01:26:59PM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote:
> > On Wed, 30 Jun 2004, Jonas Meurer wrote:
> > > maybe most recent suggestions about the future of X in debian should
> > > involve a discussion about the policy for X maintaince.
> > Apparently we did not send enough signals about this subject:
> > "Everybody is part of the XSF"
> > starting from our users to Branden and me as last.
> > What is not clear about this concept?
> So call the group of people who can upload X something else.
> The XSF to me is meaningless as a concept
If it is meaningless to you, it does not mean it is meaningless to the
> - the BTS is world-write,
> and the really important X group are the gatekeepers to Debian - being
> yourself, Branden, and possibly Ishikawa. Let's call this group the DUX
> - Debian X Uploaders.
<offtopic>DUX is not appropriate either for other political reasons that
would scare italian people away from here.</offtopic>
> If you think what I'm saying is stupid, then you're a master hacker on
> KDE, the Linux kernel, FreeBSD, Gentoo ...
now.. try to think i am and you don't know because i want to play stupid
> > > as a consequence, current 'x strike force' should undergo a radical
> > > change, to disponse of any hierachy in this developing group.
> > Probably if you did not notice yet, the users are on top of everything.
> > They decide, some of them contributes directly, Branden and I prioritize
> > the work, review, test and commit. Upload as last.
> > Can you spot please what is wrong with it?
> If I decide and propose something, will you upload it tomorrow?
No, and you know that. it would still go trough the priority list, commit,
review and test. And you know as much as we do how much time it takes that
process. If you want to question the time we take to include things that's
a separate argument. If you want to question that we do not accept
anything than sorry but you know that is not true.
> The reality is that you guys make decisions -- good or bad -- and have
> the final say on what hits Debian, as it stands. This is not necessarily
> a bad thing, but it's far away from the Utopia you paint where everyone
> can do everything.
Clearly there is some minimal filtering. We are not patch-o-matic robots.
And we take responsabilities for the changes we introduce. Personally if i
don't feel to comfortable in applying a patch, i rather prefer to check it
twice before inclusion. Specially because we will have to maintain it
during the time.
> > > all this assuming that it is required to be member for uploading parts
> > > of X, regardless what upstrem tree. but if policy is that way, maybe
> > > this question also needs to be discussed a second time.
> > Having only five or six people with SVN commit access does not mean that
> > others cannot contribute. If you feel that this is wrong, please explain
> > us why.
> I cannot contribute effectively, and I also feel that I cannot work
> within the XSF, while the SABDFL continues to feel he cannot work with
> me, and very rarely communicates with me. I have been actively removed
> from the DUX, and thus from X maintainence. That's why I can't
And you are so wrong here. I am almost tired to repeat to you the same
thing over and over.. in irc and now on the mailing list.
You can contribute with:
a) patches for bugs (you are part of upstream, aren't you? you are DD and
Debian user, aren't you?)
b) commenting on threads like you did on this one in a really nice and
c) testing fixes and pre-releases
d) stop repeating to me the same thing because i am sick and tired to
repeat the same answer ;)
e) all of the above.
If you don't feel comfortable to work within the XSF, noone will force you
to do so, but please stop finding excuses that you can contribute only
with SVN access.
You are doing an incredible amount of job upstream, do you realize that
sooner or later it will flow back here? You are doing it for even a larger
userbase than Debian. so what? you still think you are not contributing?
<user> fajita: step one
<fajita> Whatever the problem, step one is always to look in the error log.
<user> fajita: step two
<fajita> When in danger or in doubt, step two is to scream and shout.